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On the removal of Come Back Alive

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Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#331

Post by User23 »

rvz wrote: post #292
jensgk wrote: post #68

"We don’t allow Patreon to be used for funding weapons or military activity." What is this then? https://www.patreon.com/search?q=guns

This is an example of whataboutism at its finest. Where is the 'call to military action' or 'call for violence' with guns or anything that is funding an active military campaign in your link? There is none. This is a 'private platform' doing private platform things and they can decide to do business with whoever they want to and will point to anything that breaks their ToS. Don't like it? Use cryptocurrencies for don…

“Whataboutism” is a really stupid name for the Socratic method.

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#332

Post by snth »

jacquesm wrote: post #310
snth wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Inaction is equal to support of the Russian invasion No, no it isn't, in this or in other situations. More than two choices _usually_ exist. Statements like this present a false dichotomy in an attempt to coerce people to support a preferred position or interpretation.

And sometimes only one choice exists. This is such a time.

No, it isn't. The comment we're replying to here is about someone adding a message to their code repo that's shown to Russian viewers. Are you saying that if people don't do this, they support the Russian invasion? It seems pretty obvious when you get specific. It's simpleminded to divide people into two groups and say that anyone who doesn't agree with a _particular action_ is the enemy.

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#333

Post by Sebb767 »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #288
jmisavage wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kicking them out of SWIFT would hurt but China built an alternative system called CIPS. It’s nowhere near as big but it out there. But if China and Russia both used CIPS more then that would threaten the US dollar’s power as the global reserve currency.

It would also sour China's trade relationships with the rest of the world. The US is China's biggest export market at $452 billion a year, with Russia trailing at just $50B a year. If China decided to ally with Russia - or help them get around the sanction - it would decimate China's economy as well: https://tradingeconomics.com/china/exports-by-country Russia is an economically weak state; it's not in China's intere…

> If China decided to ally with Russia - or help them get around the sanction - it would decimate China's economy as well:

The US and EU also heavily depend on China. Russia is not thrown out of SWIFT for a full-on war; I highly doubt that there will be sanctions to a more important trade partner that massively hurt the EU and US themselves for merely supporting Russia.

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#334

Post by kasey_junk »

jacquesm wrote: post #218
kasey_junk wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your bank absolutely gets a say in that. They can refuse to transfer those funds for effectively any reason and will if they think that those funds are being transferred for any number of proscribed actions. Those actions need not be official sanctions either. They can refuse to do business with another bank at their discretion. I agree that it’s a very bad look for Patreon but it’s pretty business as usual.

> Your bank absolutely gets a say in that. They can refuse to transfer those funds for effectively any reason and will if they think that those funds are being transferred for any number of proscribed actions. I think I covered that by linking to the charter that governs this. > Those actions need not be official sanctions either. They can refuse to do business with another bank at their discretion. They'd have to ha…

You linked to the charter of what is disallowed, not what is a right.

I’ll concede I don’t know the Netherlands banking regulations so perhaps you do have a right to send electronic wires but what you linked doesn’t outline that.

In the US the cfpb regulates consumer rights when sending international transfers. The rights include disclosures about fees and fx and processes for adjudication of disputes but you do not have a right to send a wire.

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#335

Post by jacquesm »

snth wrote: post #332
jacquesm wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And sometimes only one choice exists. This is such a time.

No, it isn't. The comment we're replying to here is about someone adding a message to their code repo that's shown to Russian viewers. Are you saying that if people don't do this, they support the Russian invasion? It seems pretty obvious when you get specific. It's simpleminded to divide people into two groups and say that anyone who doesn't agree with a _particular action_ is the enemy.

No, that's obviously not what I'm saying.

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#336

Post by weird-eye-issue »

praptak wrote: post #166
piokoch wrote: post #19

If anyone wants to support Ukraine defense directly, please use: https://ukraine.ua/news/support-the-armed-forces-of-ukraine/ or https://ukraine.ua/news/donate-to-the-nbu-fund/ this is a bit of a hassle, as UA government agencies can accept donations only through wire transfers, but that's just a few clicks in the banking app anyway.

Anybody can confirm whether ukraine.ua is legit? Their SSL certificate is issued to sni.cloudflaressl.com, which says nothing about whoever owns ukraine.ua. I'd say this one looks a bit more legit: https://bank.gov.ua/en/news/all/natsionalniy-bank-vidkriv-sp...

Well how do you think they got Cloudflare to issue a cert on their behalf? By proving ownership of the domain...

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#338

Post by vageli »

squarefoot wrote: post #70
tomerv wrote: post #21

Direct link to Patreon's statement: https://blog.patreon.com/on-the-removal-of-come-back-alive

They have a valid point in not wanting to be used for funding military support, however the way they express concern for the safety of Ukrainian people without criticizing or even taking distance from Putin and the Russian invasion looks quite strange to me. Ukraine wasn't hit by a tornado or an earthquake; there's people behind the invasion, and Patreon seem to ignore that. Expressing disapproval against people behi…

> Expressing disapproval against people behind the facts, and not merely the facts, is important.

The platform is in a position to actually help beyond denouncing but they abstain. It is lip service nothing more.

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#339

Post by dragonwriter »

snth wrote: post #279
sofixa wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment was flagged, i vouched for it so i can downvote and rebuke. No. Inaction is equal to support of the Russian invasion ( like in so many other cases). People have to decide for themselves what they want, where their morals lie, and how they want to act on that. Message of support? Donation? Whatever. Ignoring the problem only helps the war criminals. Don't critique people for daring to speak and act agains…

> Inaction is equal to support of the Russian invasion No, no it isn't, in this or in other situations. More than two choices _usually_ exist. Statements like this present a false dichotomy in an attempt to coerce people to support a preferred position or interpretation.

Yes, inaction always supports the status quo.

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#340

Post by tonyedgecombe »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #277
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We all know the final outcome of this. In the face of the overwhelming force Ukraine faces it seems to me any help we provide is just going to prolong the agony.

Please fix your comment, you're basically saying that Ukraine should just roll over. What happens next? Think before replying, you may come across as a Russia apologist. the Taliban and IS dragged out the conflict in the middle east for 20 years and came out victorious against an army that spent trillions on that conflict. That was after said army was defeated in Vietnam as well.

>the Taliban and IS dragged out the conflict in the middle east for 20 years

At what cost? America and their allies would have left a long time ago without the Taliban.

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