On the removal of Come Back Alive • Hacker News Board

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#201

Post by jacquesm » Fri, Feb 25, 2022, 1:35 PM UTC

brabel wrote: post #168

jacquesm wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, this is beyond disgusting.

Yep, fighting without considering the consequences is what people should do. Let's destroy all of Europe if we need to, just so we can say fuck you Putin! Beyong disgusting , me? I am sure you're the best person in the world and ready to pack your bags and bear arms against any invincible opponent without even thinking about the costs as they don't matter a single bit.

Your position is called 'appeasement'. It's understandable, if not very good in the long term because that means that Putin gets to rule the world.

Somewhere you have to draw a line, you can choose for yourself whether that line is the Ukrainian border, Kiev or France. But you too will find that you have a line. Or maybe you don't.

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#202

Post by kasey_junk » Fri, Feb 25, 2022, 1:35 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #79

kasey_junk wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That might be a norm that the world _should_ have but it’s not one that actually exists currently. We demand that payment gateways prevent fraud, prevent the sale of criminal or objectionable materials, prevent money laundering and prevent sending money to nations and individuals under sanction. Having a policy of not supporting weapons purchases is on that spectrum. Just claiming people can do what they want with th…

I'm perfectly capable of transferring funds to Ukranian bank accounts from where I'm sitting, my bank doesn't get a say in that. If I were to try to send money to ISIS or some other known terrorist organization they would surely step in under AMT laws, but the Ukranian defense force is last I checked not on that list (Though I'm sure Putin would love that.) https://www.dnb.nl/en/sector-information/supervision-laws-an…

Your bank absolutely gets a say in that. They can refuse to transfer those funds for effectively any reason and will if they think that those funds are being transferred for any number of proscribed actions.

Those actions need not be official sanctions either. They can refuse to do business with another bank at their discretion.

I agree that it’s a very bad look for Patreon but it’s pretty business as usual.

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#203

Post by cloverich » Fri, Feb 25, 2022, 1:37 PM UTC

ejb999 wrote: post #177

cloverich wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not implying a moral judgement in my question, I just noticed a lot of other comments jump directly into the discussion suggested by your statement without ever qualifying whether Patreon has political pressure (whether intrinsic or extrinsic) that would influence their decision one way or the other. I think it adds important nuance / clarification to the situation.

but if political pressure lead them to their decision, it wasn't really a principled decision was it? It was a decision of convenience. A principled decision is one you make regardless of outside pressures - i.e. you stick by your principles; clearly patreon has no principles in play here. If it was wrong to allow donations, it was wrong since 8 years ago as they happily collected their commissions on donations.

> but if political pressure lead them to their decision, it wasn't really a principled decision was it?

Yes that is the point of my inquiry :)

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#204

Post by trasz » Fri, Feb 25, 2022, 1:37 PM UTC

glogla wrote: post #75

mopsi wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What missiles? There are no missiles in Eastern Europe, only a symbolic number of foreign soldiers, and even that only after the first war in Ukraine.

"Mexico joining Warsaw Pact / China" and "NATO Missiles" are common Russian propaganda talking points. When someone says those words, you know they are compromised - either willingly working for the enemy of free world, or manipulated into doing it. ("Russian sphere of influence" is another sign of Soviet-thinking, as is talking about "Ukrainian Nazis".)

“Compromised”, as in, they don’t blindly follow your propaganda?

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#205

Post by ivan_gammel » Fri, Feb 25, 2022, 1:39 PM UTC

peakaboo wrote: post #178

runarberg wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For those still looking to help, Ukrainian journalists have recommended several charities and platforms that would benefit from donations, such as the Ukrainian Red Cross Society, Voices of Children, and Revived Soldiers Ukraine. There are also 3,000+ Ukrainian creators on Patreon – and thousands more using other platforms – who would benefit from our support. Patreon seems to realize that donations are needed and…

This is a war. Children are writing on reddit about explosions outside their windows. Patreon is doing the morally wrong thing here.

Germany disagrees with you as a country that does not ship military equipment to war zones.

At this moment war is happening mostly outside of the cities. Soon it will be there and urban warfare is cruel. 100BTC or Patreon donations will not stop it. The best you can do for those children is to help them to evacuate to Europe, to get proper accommodation, medical help and education. Pointing towards charities which do that is morally right thing.

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#206

Post by keymone » Fri, Feb 25, 2022, 1:40 PM UTC

micromacrofoot wrote: post #196

wickoff wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like oxygen. Is it bad because the invaders can also breathe it in? Ukranian government is very much pro-crypto. https://www.kmu.gov.ua/en/news/parlament-uhvaliv-zakon-pro-v...

I don’t think anyone’s buying weapons with oxygen though

they use oxygen to pull the trigger on their firearms.

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#207

Post by keymone » Fri, Feb 25, 2022, 1:41 PM UTC

hef19898 wrote: post #199

keymone wrote: post #123

Quoted post unavailable.

With the risk of getting a dead comment, I can't help but ask one question: Imagine groups in countries getting uninvited visits from NATO or US forces, pick the country of choice from Vietnam to Afghanistan, would have used Patreon for fundraising. Wpuld the perception, after they get kicked of patreon, be "fuck patreon" or "good that patreon isn't financing terrorists"? Ukraine needs all the help they can get. And…

No post body was provided.

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#208

Post by nemo44x » Fri, Feb 25, 2022, 1:42 PM UTC

shmageggy wrote: post #167

Can someone with knowledge of these things clarify the ramifications for their business if they were to allow something like this on their platform? I'd imagine it would have significant regulatory and legal implications. Which of course sounds mild compared to the ramifications to the lives of those affected, but I'm wondering if it would be a business-killing move for some legal reason. To me, the wildest thing her…

They could be accused of funding terrorisim. For instance, imagine a radical fringe group the far left of the West falls in love with takes up arms against a group of people they believe is unjustly occupying their land. So the Western far left group uses Patreon to raise funds so this group can buy military grade weapons to use against their occupiers.

Congrats, you just funded Hammas.

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#209

Post by croes » Fri, Feb 25, 2022, 1:42 PM UTC

user-the-name wrote: post #155

croes wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is there will be situations where it is less clear if it's bad or not. Next step would be all kind of groups trying to get military funding.

That problem is a lot, lot smaller than the problem of people dying in Ukraine as they typed out that statement.

Officially supported funding would make them a legitimate target in war.

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#210

Post by capableweb » Fri, Feb 25, 2022, 1:42 PM UTC

Geee wrote: post #110

You can use bank transfers and Bitcoin to donate directly, see this page: https://savelife.in.ua/en/donate/ It seems that bitcoin donations are pouring in (over $4 million already). You can watch the bitcoin address here: https://bitinfocharts.com/bitcoin/address/bc1qkd5az2ml7dk5j5...

While they are in fact receiving lots of BTC, one transaction sticks out (80 BTC, 2022-02-25 09:55:18 [3,067,846.41 USD]), I wonder who has that much BTC to give away like that. It is impressive, but raises a lot of questions.