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On the removal of Come Back Alive

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Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#51

Post by Sebb767 »

jacquesm wrote: post #37
Sebb767 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when in this specific situation violence is maybe not bad. I'm pretty sure Russia would say the same thing if you ask them about their situation. That's the problem once you bring in subjectivity. That being said, tolerating the account for a few more days would've probably been a better play. EDIT: Just to be very clear, I'm not condoning Russian aggression in any way. My point is that not funding a war is an acce…

Quoted post unavailable.

Well, from their point of view, a military pact with the explicit goal of keeping them under control has first taken their land and is now threatening to get even closer to their border and encircle them. Just take a look at the Cuban missile crisis to see how the US reacted in a comparable situation and in that case, the distance from the missiles to the capital was a lot longer. For Russia, this is more like the missiles are already in Cuba and now Mexico is considering to join the Warsaw pact.

Everyone thinks they're on the right side. Now, obviously I think we (as in EU+US) are the good guys here, but it's quite clear that a lot of people were both very convinced and very wrong about this and I don't consider us unfailable.

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#52

Post by ejb999 »

bell-cot wrote: post #41
AussieWog93 wrote: post #26

"It is a violation of our policies, and so we have removed the page." What a shit fucking response. Following a policy that you arbitrarily created yourself is not a reasonable justification for anything.

Would you be satisfied if they just came out and said "Patreon is a small financial services company. Not black-ops mercenary outfit. Not a powerful nation state. If you expect us to face down powerful nation states on your behalf, we suggest that you sign up HERE to fight on the front lines in Ukraine yourself." ?

I must have missed the part where patreon was asked to face down Russia. Hyperbole much?

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#53

Post by croes »

cdot2 wrote: post #5

So essentially the problem is they're sticking to their "violence is bad" policy when in this specific situation violence is maybe not bad.

The problem is there will be situations where it is less clear if it's bad or not.

Next step would be all kind of groups trying to get military funding.

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#54

Post by jacquesm »

rswail wrote: post #45
jacquesm wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Ukrainian's need help but this should be coming from government's, not private citizens through a private foreign company. If you set yourself up as a payment gateway people will use you as a payment gateway. And what private citizens do with their money is up to them.

Patreon is not a "payment gateway", it's a mechanism for people to support creative activities, as the original term "patron of the arts" means. Funding military weapons steps on some very complicated lines about what people are allowed to spend their money on. So saying "what private citizens do with their money is up to them." is only true as far as the law says.

Sure, but Patreon was just fine with this until two weeks ago. They should either work on their acceptance criteria or admit that they are in fact a money transmitter. They very selectively enforce this and that is why it makes them look bad because right now is the worst possible time to close this account.

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#56

Post by jacquesm »

basisword wrote: post #47
jacquesm wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Ukrainian's need help but this should be coming from government's, not private citizens through a private foreign company. If you set yourself up as a payment gateway people will use you as a payment gateway. And what private citizens do with their money is up to them.

> If you set yourself up as a payment gateway people will use you as a payment gateway. They're not a payment gateway for everything and anything. They can choose what activity they don't want to facilitate and they have. > And what private citizens do with their money is up to them. It's not. There are numerous restrictions on what private citizens can do with their money.

> There are numerous restrictions on what private citizens can do with their money.

Yes, but those restrictions are not typically arbitrated by commercial entities but by the law.

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#57

Post by AussieWog93 »

bell-cot wrote: post #41
AussieWog93 wrote: post #26

"It is a violation of our policies, and so we have removed the page." What a shit fucking response. Following a policy that you arbitrarily created yourself is not a reasonable justification for anything.

Would you be satisfied if they just came out and said "Patreon is a small financial services company. Not black-ops mercenary outfit. Not a powerful nation state. If you expect us to face down powerful nation states on your behalf, we suggest that you sign up HERE to fight on the front lines in Ukraine yourself." ?

Honestly, I'd be satisfied if they gave any indication at all that they had considered the weight of their decision, especially given the timing.

Patreon arguing that they were just following the rules, when they themselves created the rules and can rewrite them arbitrarily, is absolutely piss-poor form in a humanitarian crisis like this.

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#58

Post by mopsi »

Sebb767 wrote: post #51
jacquesm wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Well, from their point of view, a military pact with the explicit goal of keeping them under control has first taken their land and is now threatening to get even closer to their border and encircle them. Just take a look at the Cuban missile crisis to see how the US reacted in a comparable situation and in that case, the distance from the missiles to the capital was a lot longer. For Russia, this is more like the mi…

What missiles? There are no missiles in Eastern Europe, only a symbolic number of foreign soldiers, and even that only after the first war in Ukraine.

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#59

Post by basisword »

syshum wrote: post #46
basisword wrote: post #35

Seems sensible. Private companies shouldn't be funding wars, particularly wars overseas from where they are based. The Ukrainian's need help but this should be coming from government's, not private citizens through a private foreign company. I feel like this shouldn't be controversial at all.

I think it should be controversial, and I do not think people should just proclaim "let the government handle it", that is very dangerous idea and one that is getting us in to more and more problems The people are the government, when we loose sight of that we have problems. Clearly the governments around the world are unwilling to help

Then go out and protest your government to make the decision you believe is right.

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#60

Post by croes »

ejb999 wrote: post #52
bell-cot wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you be satisfied if they just came out and said "Patreon is a small financial services company. Not black-ops mercenary outfit. Not a powerful nation state. If you expect us to face down powerful nation states on your behalf, we suggest that you sign up HERE to fight on the front lines in Ukraine yourself." ?

I must have missed the part where patreon was asked to face down Russia. Hyperbole much?

Don't you think it could make them a target of russia's cyber warfare?
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