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Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

universityofcalifornia.edu

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Re: Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

#351

Post by Smoosh »

hourislate wrote: post #208
retrac wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The heck is this? Eat a pound of coconut butter a day? Eat more than a few tablespoons of any edible oil in one sitting and you'll definitely feel a difference. Edit: using only added coconut oil in cooking is, upon reflection, a more probable interpretation. Sorry.

>Coconut oil is the least fattening of all the oils. Pig farmers tried to use it to fatten their animals, but when it was added to the animal feed, coconut oil made the pigs lean [See Encycl. Brit. Book of the Year, 1946]. https://raypeat.com/articles/articles/unsaturated-oils.shtml

I would hope that there would be a better source than a 75 year old "summary of news book". If this is true there would surely be more recent and thorough scientific studies.

Re: Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

#352

Post by bduerst »

phkahler wrote: post #265
crowbahr wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the study: > One additional note on this study — the research team has not yet isolated which chemicals in the oil are responsible for the changes they found in the hypothalamus. But they have ruled out two candidates. It is not linoleic acid, since the modified oil also produced genetic disruptions; nor is it stigmasterol, a cholesterol-like chemical found naturally in soybean oil. 1. We're not mammals that exp…

>> We're not mammals that experience torpor. That doesn't even remotely apply to us. Your first sentence is obviously true. Your second one is probably false, since the total removal of that seems unlikely compared to evolution simply disabling it. I have no evidence that part of it remains, nor do I see any evidence of total removal.

If there are effects of linolenic acid on mammalian torpor, then the second sentence is still true.

Life science is based on observational evidence, and since humans are some mammals who have never been observed to undergo torpor, effects observed inducing mammalian torpor do not apply to humans. They're not making a positive evolutionary statement about human torpor never existing, just that any observed effects from linolenic acid on mammalian torpor do not apply to humans the way the other person was implying it does.

Re: Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

#354

Post by Smoosh »

klyrs wrote: post #164
danlugo92 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go try and eat only coconut oil for say, 2 weeks, you'll feel the difference.

https://www.news-medical.net/health/Oils-Rich-in-Linoleic-Ac... Look, if we're going to make major life changes on the basis of this one study, you've missed the opportunity for an all-chocolate diet.

I'm not going to criticize your all-chocolate diet, but its always sensible to take supplements in the form of embedded nuts, nougat, praline and perhaps fruit and mint flavoured confections.

Re: Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

#355

Post by bduerst »

hourislate wrote: post #208
retrac wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The heck is this? Eat a pound of coconut butter a day? Eat more than a few tablespoons of any edible oil in one sitting and you'll definitely feel a difference. Edit: using only added coconut oil in cooking is, upon reflection, a more probable interpretation. Sorry.

>Coconut oil is the least fattening of all the oils. Pig farmers tried to use it to fatten their animals, but when it was added to the animal feed, coconut oil made the pigs lean [See Encycl. Brit. Book of the Year, 1946]. https://raypeat.com/articles/articles/unsaturated-oils.shtml

IIRC, that was more from the fact that coconut oil has zero linolenic acid, which is an essential metabolite. Coconut oil is still a huge calorie source for livestock, just that it's also mixed with soybean oil.

Basically, any combination of coconut oil in your diet that isn't 100% coconut oil will lead to calorie gain.

Re: Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

#356

Post by selfhoster11 »

pacomerh wrote: post #333
JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #133

I used to eat sardines every day trying to get the health benefits of fatty fish. They were packed in soybean oil. I drank the oil too. With time I began to have bizarre mental issues that I finally tracked down to the sardines. Sardines packed in olive oil don’t cause this issue. That’s my anecdata to share.

I think the problem starts with eating canned food here.

I happen to agree, partly. Canned food 24/7 isn't healthy when other options are available, but that's why it shouldn't be an exclusive ingredient of one's diet.

Re: Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

#357

Post by bduerst »

klyrs wrote: post #164
danlugo92 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go try and eat only coconut oil for say, 2 weeks, you'll feel the difference.

https://www.news-medical.net/health/Oils-Rich-in-Linoleic-Ac... Look, if we're going to make major life changes on the basis of this one study, you've missed the opportunity for an all-chocolate diet.

*Cacao butter diet. Not the delightful as the candy bars but still just as possible.

Re: Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

#358

Post by frankus »

daed wrote: post #317
frankus wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some interesting coincidences that make me think that the torpor hypothesis might be worth exploring: - Basal metabolic rates in present-day Americans are substantially lower than they were in the past ( http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:nqBxKGn... -- Yes, the link is from the aforementioned blog, but you can check the citations). - Mean body temperatures today are lower than in the past…

Can’t all these things also be explained by our increasingly sedentary lifestyle?

I see three problems with that explanation.

First, I'm not sure there's a strong case that our lifestyles today are any more sedentary than in, say, the 1970s (when obesity rates were around 12% rather than 30%). We had cars, transit, elevators, escalators, school buses, television, keyboards, etc. in the 1970s, while at the same time "going to the gym" was just not something that average people did on a regular basis. Even going jogging was mildly eccentric.

Second, this is looking at resting metabolic rates, not overall calorie expenditure, although there is probably some association between RMR and physical activity.

Which brings me to the third point, which is that you're just shifting the burden of answering question of "why are we fat?" to "why are we sedentary?". If we are in fact increasingly sedentary, it could be that an outside factor is causing both low RMR and sedentary behavior. Anecdotally, I (as a comparatively skinny person) have a lot harder time sitting still than some of my friends and acquaintances that struggle with their weight. They might consider spending a day in bed as a great way to recharge, whereas it is something I would only do if I were pretty miserably ill.

Re: Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

#359

Post by telchior »

ghostly_s wrote: post #313
telchior wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I currently use peanut oil, but it's still 30% PUFA. Presumably if PUFAs are bad (again, unproven!) then there would be something better.

Why are you presuming PUFAs are bad? This study doesn't seem to make such a suggestion.

A couple reasons. One, I believe the reason soybean was chosen for this study was simply its prevalence in US food -- not because it's special or unique. As an oil it shares characteristics with a number of others, and the most notable of these characteristics is its fat profile (>50% PUFA).

Two, a connection between high PUFA oils in general and poor health outcomes is being postulated by other researchers... and, to be fair, many people who probably have no particular expertise and/or hidden associations, such as diet fads. But that's one of the reasons I asked the question initially; even the sources that would normally be trustworthy on other science (government scientists) have proven to be wildly incorrect and untrustworthy when it comes to dietary issues. I was honestly hoping someone that works in the field would pop up to comment.

Re: Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

#360

Post by thaumasiotes »

goldcd wrote: post #75
version_five wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you elaborate on that? It doesn't surprise we that "genetic changes" is used sensationally, just would like to know what is actually happening and whether it's uncommon or something pretty normal?

Your DNA is the "cookbook", of what your body can make. Gene expression is what your body happens to be making (and how much) from the cookbook - and's entirely normal. I'd have reserved "Genetic changes" for alterations to the cookbook.

> Your DNA is the "cookbook", of what your body can make.

> Gene expression is what your body happens to be making (and how much) from the cookbook

Gene expression is what you are making right now, and how much, in a direct and fairly uninformative sense.

But along with recipes for what you can make, your DNA obviously also encodes what you should make, and when, and how much, and how all of that should change in response to various things -- and gene expression is part of that too.

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