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Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

reuters.com

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Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#271

Post by celticninja »

hutzlibu wrote: post #201
nine_k wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, either side would be pretty reluctant to bomb it, or otherwise battle too hard close to it. It's a great position to hold if you can.

"It's a great position to hold if you can." It is a great position to hold and fight in, because the area is pretty empty of civilians. And russia must avoid ukranian (russian in their eyes) civilian casualties, to not loose the little popular support they have for this war. And neither side will be so stupid to directly bomb the remains of the reactor, but I think it would need a serious direct bombing, for radiatio…

I don't think Putin is worried about loss of life of Ukrainian citizens. He is worried about losing soldiers, or more importantly dead soldiers being repatriated on the news. They will cover up civilian casualties or blame them on Ukrainian troops. The only support for this will come from Russia domestically and it is that which he seeks to maintain with this war. Which I'm guessing he hoped would be quick and decisive, avoiding the bloodshed of Russian soldiers that will be his undoing at home.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#272

Post by vanviegen »

pkaye wrote: post #215
avazhi wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America will do nothing except 'strongly condemn' what's happening, just like the rest of the world. The simple fact is that there is no real upside to risking actual war with Russia - that the Russians will dominate the Ukraine while walking away with a bloody nose (in the form of minor troop losses of its own) is a foregone conclusion. Without more, that's a localised conflict that Russia rather hilariously can try…

> America will do nothing except 'strongly condemn' what's happening, just like the rest of the world. People don't want a 'world police' anymore.

What people are you talking about exactly? Those in Ukraine?

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#273

Post by ethbr0 »

pkaye wrote: post #215
avazhi wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America will do nothing except 'strongly condemn' what's happening, just like the rest of the world. The simple fact is that there is no real upside to risking actual war with Russia - that the Russians will dominate the Ukraine while walking away with a bloody nose (in the form of minor troop losses of its own) is a foregone conclusion. Without more, that's a localised conflict that Russia rather hilariously can try…

> America will do nothing except 'strongly condemn' what's happening, just like the rest of the world. People don't want a 'world police' anymore.

Then they're going to have to remember what a world without police looks like.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#274

Post by odiroot »

bjtitus wrote: post #249
odiroot wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Is any part of Chernobyl still in operation? It seems like everything was shut down by 2000 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_Nuclear_Power_Plant ).

I stand corrected then!

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#275

Post by brabel »

nickpp wrote: post #268
brabel wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just post the transcript of the full speech, it was not hard to find it: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-24/full-tran... Here's the relevant part (interpret this as you will): "I would now like to say something very important for those who may be tempted to interfere in these developments from the outside. No matter who tries to stand in our way or all the more so create threats for our country and ou…

Please highlight the word nuclear in that transcript.

There isn't one. I am not the person who was claiming there was, if that's what you're implying.

Some people think that his words imply nuclear, but as it's not directly mentioned, that's just one interpretation.

If you ask me, I think that means just some secret weapon pointed directly at whoever Putin believes may interfere... but no one really knows.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#276

Post by pishpash »

lend000 wrote: post #216
Ruphin wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that the (in)stability of a nation can legitimize military incursion by another nation is plain absurd. At what point exactly does a war become legitimate? Is it okay to attack a country when they are entwined in civil war? What percentage of the country needs to be involved in the conflict? What if it is an unarmed but still major internal political conflict? No war is legitimate. Comparing this incursion t…

No one said it was legitimate insofar as that means ethical. I am simply curious about the huge wave of groupthink sentiment that makes no attempt to fill everyone in on the context of the situation, and whether this was actually a logical (absence all ethics) move by Russia. One of the replies to my comment offered an interesting perspective. We live in a real world with real events. Just because us westerners have…

That's the thing. There is a war going on between Saudi Arabia and Yemen, and Syria is still festering. Nobody seems to care.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#277

Post by jazzyjackson »

Miner49er wrote: post #120
yabones wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really understand the implications of that statement?

Maybe OP is a Posadist.

Thanks for the rabbithole history lesson, reminds me of Bannon's "deconstruct the state" angle, an optimism that somehow things can improve after everything is destroyed...

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#278

Post by bayesian_horse »

kasey_junk wrote: post #123
ngcc_hk wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is still an independent state and a member for a long term of un. Can one just take one like japan say if it is not part of nato.

If no one has the will to stop it… yes. But Japan is a bad example because the US & Japan maintain mutual defense agreements. If it’s invaded the US will act.

There is a scenario where North Korea feels an invasion is imminent and uses short and medium range nuclear missiles against US bases, for example in Japan. With the calculation that this would nip any kind of invasion in the bud, and the US military might refrain from nuclear retaliation because North Korea would threaten the east coast with long range nuclear missiles.

But that kind of calculation "oh, the US won't have the stomach to fight a useless war if you hit them hard enough first" was exactly what doomed the Japanese Empire.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#280

Post by nickpp »

aaronchall wrote: post #160
sAbakumoff wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putin warned the West that he wouldn't hesitate to conduct a nuclear strike if they try to meddle.

Mutually assured destruction means that his entire ass is destroyed - there's a lot more of NATO than there is of him.

Exactly. That is why he never actually threatened with a nuclear strike, just some vague "retaliation". But that was sadly enough for cowardly politicians to abandon Ukraine all over again…
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