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EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

europarl.europa.eu

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Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#371

Post by maerF0x0 »

pnutjam wrote: post #361
maerF0x0 wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way I've seen this been well handled is to break out the value adding concepts to "bonuses" or add'l comp for details like: "we give people and extra $24k per year if they do oncall rotation" and we give "x% more to those who work more and contribute more" otherwise once it becomes public it turns into infighting of "we're both L3s, why do they get more?" (ignoring that one of them leaves early 2-3x a week t…

You know it's illegal to discriminate based on the family status of a worker; which is exactly what you're describing. Jobs should have clear defined goals and workaholics should not be able to ruin it for everyone else.

you're assuming a whole crap ton of things not said here

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#372

Post by maerF0x0 »

RHSeeger wrote: post #335
maerF0x0 wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way I've seen this been well handled is to break out the value adding concepts to "bonuses" or add'l comp for details like: "we give people and extra $24k per year if they do oncall rotation" and we give "x% more to those who work more and contribute more" otherwise once it becomes public it turns into infighting of "we're both L3s, why do they get more?" (ignoring that one of them leaves early 2-3x a week t…

But putting a lot of that money into bonuses completely defeats the point of having published salary ranges. It's really no different than having no bonuses, but a larger range for each salary bracket. And nobody wants companies to post a salary range for a position where the low and high ends are widely disparate; it has a similar value to not posting the range at all.

>position where the low and high ends are widely disparate;

This is more or less what I've observed in practice in Colorado. The range is quite high, and it excludes nearly 50% of real total comp due to equity, benefits, etc that are variably applied.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#373

Post by dmitriid »

totony wrote: post #333
estaseuropano wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that sound like initiatives written by corporate lawyers?

Who do you believe this affects more. Big corporations or small/medium businesses EDIT: to be clearer, what if this is to hinder competition? This seems like it would affect small companies disproportionally more than big ones, since small ones will not have a formalized pay system (and probably shouldn't, since value produced is way less obvious).

Every time there's this cry of "think of the small business!".

And every time it's bullshit.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#374

Post by hughrr »

balfirevic wrote: post #363
suslik wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is often an underestimated point. I get 9-5 no overtimes plus 38 vacation days per year (and an ability to purchase more). It would take a lot of money - more than I am likely to get - to convince me to switch to a US working schedule.

> plus 38 vacation days per year Well, most of my programmer colleagues get 20-25. And they are also in Europe!

36 days here and that's on top of public holidays.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#375

Post by olalonde »

mhoad wrote: post #188
hughrr wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Colleagues of mine in the US work a lot more hours as well. I think our effective spending power in Europe is much better just on that point as well.

Correct, in fact I would say that for the higher salary you are also giving up a lot of legal rights as well. The idea that you can be fired for any reason at anytime in a lot of the country is an incredibly stressful concept for a meaningful part of the population.

It does make it easier to get hired since hiring doesn't carry as much risk for the employer. Some companies do offer employment contracts that restrict their own ability to fire as well. Both options are available.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#376

Post by giantg2 »

pnutjam wrote: post #365
giantg2 wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a network administrator. I have training in that space. If it were really that easy to find a job paying that, then I would go do it.

You should look around.

I have. Nothing has panned out. Very few things have even look good.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#377

Post by totony »

dmitriid wrote: post #373
totony wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who do you believe this affects more. Big corporations or small/medium businesses EDIT: to be clearer, what if this is to hinder competition? This seems like it would affect small companies disproportionally more than big ones, since small ones will not have a formalized pay system (and probably shouldn't, since value produced is way less obvious).

Every time there's this cry of "think of the small business!". And every time it's bullshit.

Or perhaps most regulation is harmful to small businesses because they lack the lobbying power of the elite.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#378

Post by drstewart »

mahathu wrote: post #119
drstewart wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, none of that is true. There is no federal sales tax, and sales tax in most places didn't ever come close to 10%, let alone 20%. In many states it's 0. Filing your taxes is free. Maybe you can spend $30 if you want to use turbo tax to do it for you. Any job with these salary differences provides great health care and benefits. Cars exist in Europe, I know many software developers there that have them. Why people…

Curious you left out Berlin in that list! I would certainly choose 30 days of paid time off, parental leave, good healthcare etc over having to live in the US.

And I would (and have) certainly chosen to retire 10 years earlier over a few extra days of vacation. 365 days of vacation beats 30. But hey, if you enjoy that €30,000 salary, more power to you. You can certainly eke out an existence, while you share that bathroom with your flatmates.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#379

Post by Piskvorrr »

jakey_bakey wrote: post #105
tialaramex wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Employers would be prohibited from asking about an applicant's pay history Aw, that was one of the fun moments when getting my current job. I moved from private sector to public sector and they're like "You understand that the previous pay you listed is more than our boss's boss, the director of our entire org unit gets paid right?". Yes, yes I do. Which is why when you asked at interview "Why do you want this role…

This is weird because it's such an easy question to answer. "Performance management isn't an exact science and if everyone knew everyone else's pay, it would be total chaos and nothing would get done."

In other words, mushroom farming: "shovel them with bullshit and keep them in the dark."

It's rather suspicious that any company I've seen that was this evasive, the pay levels did leak eventually (and the speculations about who is paid what for what reason did bring total chaos) - and surprise! It turned out that performance management is not an exact science, but rather a game of "who's friends with the boss", completely regardless of performance.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#380

Post by tialaramex »

matwood wrote: post #305
tialaramex wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Employers would be prohibited from asking about an applicant's pay history Aw, that was one of the fun moments when getting my current job. I moved from private sector to public sector and they're like "You understand that the previous pay you listed is more than our boss's boss, the director of our entire org unit gets paid right?". Yes, yes I do. Which is why when you asked at interview "Why do you want this role…

> "You understand that the previous pay you listed is more than our boss's boss, the director of our entire org unit gets paid right?" My response to this comment/question is always "it's not my problem you're underpaying everyone else."

Of course it would be my problem if the employer is underpaying everybody. In fact one of the things I consider when accepting pay offer - as I explained during that step of the process, is whether this would be a reasonable amount to pay other people who might be able to do the job. Taking jobs which don't pay a living wage undercuts their ability to negotiate a reasonable price for their labour.

It's true that it's also necessary to confirm that the job pays enough that it doesn't actually cause me hardship to work there, but of course the advertised range for the position was comfortably more than that. My operating costs are in fact slightly lower than the calculated "Cost of living" in this country.

From your entirely selfish point of view I'm sure being paid less than half as much as before would be totally unacceptable, but it wasn't a big concern for me. It's just a number. Good luck achieving happiness by making your number go up more.

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