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EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

europarl.europa.eu

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Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#61

Post by Levitz »

JanSt wrote: post #50
bloqs wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pay gap exists. The cause of the pay gap is not due to oppression, but due to tempermental difference between different types of people, and the impact that has on salary negotiation. (Including, male-female temperamental differences). This is the point of contention.

Maybe pay shouldn't be based on the personal ability to negotiate, which is not a core competency for most jobs, but on a equal compensation for equal work then...

While we are at it, the cost of a product should depend on its objective value, not what the market pays.

My point being that sure, ideally it wouldn't be like that, but any implementation I can possibly think of is not viable at all. Jobs are fairly unique things.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#62

Post by zibzab »

trabant00 wrote: post #49

I find myself at the other end of the equal pay problem - I am equally payed with equally titled but not equally working coworkers. The entire management chain has clearly different expectations from me: I get most if not all of the difficult tasks and my coworkers rely daily on my guidance. In this quarter discussion with my manager I've been told I can not get a pay raise as it would create a discrepancy with my co…

How is this any different from the normal state of affairs?

You think you work too much and are paid too little? Then leave, this has nothing to do with "equal pay".

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#63

Post by hughrr »

pimterry wrote: post #2

The meat is page 5 under "The changes the proposal would bring". Highlights: * Job-seekers would have a right to information about the pay range of posts they apply for * Employers would be prohibited from asking about an applicant's pay history * Employees would have a right to ask their employer for sex-disaggregated information on the average pay of other workers doing the same work or work of equal value. * Emplo…

I rather liked it when employers asked about pay history because I used to lie about it. I managed to double my salary in two job jumps!

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#64

Post by Levitz »

rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #26
aborsy wrote: post #3

Honestly, it’s going to be embarrassing with these low salaries when we socialize with non EU colleagues!

… until you take into account everything covered by welfare states.

There ain't no welfare state on heaven or earth that makes enough of a difference for new grads to earn 14-18k yearly (before tax). Good afternoon from Spain.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#65

Post by tomp »

pimterry wrote: post #2

The meat is page 5 under "The changes the proposal would bring". Highlights: * Job-seekers would have a right to information about the pay range of posts they apply for * Employers would be prohibited from asking about an applicant's pay history * Employees would have a right to ask their employer for sex-disaggregated information on the average pay of other workers doing the same work or work of equal value. * Emplo…

Transparency is good, but what about freedom of choice, to enable individuals to act on that information?

Ideal would be outlawing non-competes.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#67

Post by tomp »

gjulianm wrote: post #44
simonh wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not fiction, that's hyperbole, but there are factors other than gender by itself that accounts for a lot of the remaining disparity between men and women's pay. Taking a career break to have children, historical 'steering' of women away from STEM subjects in education, some apparent natural tendency for many women to avoid such subjects even when they have a free choice, a tendency for women to not challenge the…

> Taking a career break to have children, historical 'steering' of women away from STEM subjects in education, some apparent natural tendency for many women to avoid such subjects even when they have a free choice, a tendency for women to not challenge their compensation or push for raises compared to men, women's tendency to avoid overtime compared to men which can affect their advancement prospects. I mean, all of…

Gender is a made-up concept with no sensible definition.

The defining quality is sex. Having children is simply more burdensome and time-consuming for women, no way around it (except artificial wombs in the distant future). I've advocated "child-bonus" before (i.e. paying companies extra when their employees get pregnant and on maternity leave), but I doubt that idea will gain any popularity.

When even in the most equal societies the sex-interest gap (which is upstream of career choice) not only persists, but increases, that is additional heavy evidence that it's influenced mainly by biology, not by society.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#68

Post by hughrr »

dijit wrote: post #48
aborsy wrote: post #3

Honestly, it’s going to be embarrassing with these low salaries when we socialize with non EU colleagues!

I used to think this (as a euro), then I met an American and he explained that he ended up better off in Europe on a "lower" salary because he hadn't considered the hidden costs of living in the USA. He claimed (though I'm certainly no expert) that you have to do your own taxes and set aside money for that; he also claimed that "sales tax" had local, state and federal taxes applied, so while it varies from state to s…

Colleagues of mine in the US work a lot more hours as well. I think our effective spending power in Europe is much better just on that point as well.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#69

Post by consp »

xdennis wrote: post #9
JCM9 wrote: post #6

These laws don’t have the effect people think they will in tech given that “salary” is often a small part of someone’s overall compensation. A role might say it has a $150,000 “salary” but if someone has say $300,000 in RSUs on top of that then they’re really making $450,000 with a $150,000 “salary”. Eg in the US employers must publish the “salary” for certain visa applicants, but those numbers are often only a small…

We don't really have startups in Europe. We're only paid money.

I work at one in a building filled with them in Europe. N=1 though but it refutes your claim.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#70

Post by cvak »

nivenkos wrote: post #56
rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

… until you take into account everything covered by welfare states.

The salaries are lower before taxes though.

No, they are lower, and on top of that, they are taxed more.
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