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EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

europarl.europa.eu

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Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#51

Post by sofixa »

JCM9 wrote: post #10
tux3 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like that creates two incentives, one the one hand to mention directly in the job posting whether salary will be a small part of someone's overall compensation, on the other hand this might also incentive companies to push the salary/stock ratio up to appear more competitive.

Given the wide availability of more complete data points on total comp packages from other sources (eg levels.fyi) it’s unlikely a “government mandated salary database” will add any net new information in many cases, and per above that government salary data will likely be misleading at best. I do get that the optics look good though and it makes politicians feel like they’re doing something.

levels.fyi is dependent on people willing disclosing, and is of course for very limited sectors of the job market.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#52

Post by qaq »

a_chris wrote: post #22
JCM9 wrote: post #6

These laws don’t have the effect people think they will in tech given that “salary” is often a small part of someone’s overall compensation. A role might say it has a $150,000 “salary” but if someone has say $300,000 in RSUs on top of that then they’re really making $450,000 with a $150,000 “salary”. Eg in the US employers must publish the “salary” for certain visa applicants, but those numbers are often only a small…

I'm sorry by Europe is not USA. We have no RSU and little to zera extra compensations. Salary is just salary. Please don't undervaluate this law proposal if you don't know what you are talking about

Working in Ireland RSUs are very much a thing here same as in US

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#53

Post by JanSt »

Raed667 wrote: post #20

Is there anything in this text that would prevent a company from posting offers with very large ranges? "this position salary can be from €35k to 75k€ depending on multiple factors" Such ranges would render it pointless

* Employees would have a right to ask their employer for sex-disaggregated information on the average pay of other workers doing the same work or work of equal value.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#55

Post by IanCal »

Raed667 wrote: post #20

Is there anything in this text that would prevent a company from posting offers with very large ranges? "this position salary can be from €35k to 75k€ depending on multiple factors" Such ranges would render it pointless

If an applicant cannot get the high end for that position then it seems reasonable to counter. Also, it'll just look stupid to applicants.

35-75 would also help rule out the role for quite a lot of people.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#56

Post by nivenkos »

rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #26
aborsy wrote: post #3

Honestly, it’s going to be embarrassing with these low salaries when we socialize with non EU colleagues!

… until you take into account everything covered by welfare states.

The salaries are lower before taxes though.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#57

Post by tpm »

mustyoshi wrote: post #16
pimterry wrote: post #2

The meat is page 5 under "The changes the proposal would bring". Highlights: * Job-seekers would have a right to information about the pay range of posts they apply for * Employers would be prohibited from asking about an applicant's pay history * Employees would have a right to ask their employer for sex-disaggregated information on the average pay of other workers doing the same work or work of equal value. * Emplo…

How does making salary public and not asking about applicants pay history work? If you tell them your title and employer, can't they just look up what you probably got paid?

No. Individual personal salary is private information protected by law (at least in our country). Starting salary range in job offers is public, that's not enugh information.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#58

Post by Levitz »

simonh wrote: post #34
boomskats wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any external references to back up your 'pay gap shown time[0] and time again[1] to be fiction' claim? FYI I had to read your comment a few times to try to pick out what you're trying to say without getting distracted by the gratuitous vitriol. It might make you feel better but it's not an effective means of actual communication. [0]: ? [1]: ?

It's not fiction, that's hyperbole, but there are factors other than gender by itself that accounts for a lot of the remaining disparity between men and women's pay. Taking a career break to have children, historical 'steering' of women away from STEM subjects in education, some apparent natural tendency for many women to avoid such subjects even when they have a free choice, a tendency for women to not challenge the…

The idea that the average income for men and women isn't the same is not fiction at all, it's completely real.

It is also not the idea that is frequently paraded around when talking about a pay gap, since it can actually be argued against in sensible terms, for example, if women simply ask for raises less often than men, is that really unfair?

What more often than not happens is that the idea of a pay gap is presented as if women were earning less solely because they are women and their employers simply decided to pay them less for that reason. That is fiction and a whole bunch of us are tired of it, exhausted even.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#59

Post by glofish »

Glawen wrote: post #46
Raed667 wrote: post #20

Is there anything in this text that would prevent a company from posting offers with very large ranges? "this position salary can be from €35k to 75k€ depending on multiple factors" Such ranges would render it pointless

Why dismiss the proposal based on how companies can avoid it? I like this proposal because it is a step towards transparency. It is not perfect, as any law, but the small steps are compounding over time.

It is not as much about dismissal of the proposal - they are just pointing out a trivial mechanisms to bypass it, all the while making us all worse off.

I for one suspect that better the "equality enforcement" gets the less ability a company has to reward a better worker over worse ones. This applies to both men and women.

When everyone is "equal" it just means more productive people subsidize the work of less productive ones. Which at least today can be rewarded.

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