Live data from Hacker News

EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

europarl.europa.eu

101–110 of 388 posts

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#101
post #50
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pay gap exists. The cause of the pay gap is not due to oppression, but due to tempermental difference between different types of people, and the impact that has on salary negotiation. (Including, male-female temperamental differences). This is the point of contention.

Maybe pay shouldn't be based on the personal ability to negotiate, which is not a core competency for most jobs, but on a equal compensation for equal work then...

>Maybe pay shouldn't be based on the personal ability to negotiate, which is not a core competency for most jobs

It is and always was, every day on the marked where you had to haggle for the price you think it's worth for you.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#102
post #48
post #3

Honestly, it’s going to be embarrassing with these low salaries when we socialize with non EU colleagues!

I used to think this (as a euro), then I met an American and he explained that he ended up better off in Europe on a "lower" salary because he hadn't considered the hidden costs of living in the USA. He claimed (though I'm certainly no expert) that you have to do your own taxes and set aside money for that; he also claimed that "sales tax" had local, state and federal taxes applied, so while it varies from state to s…

>He claimed (though I'm certainly no expert) that you have to do your own taxes and set aside money for that;

Unless you're a contractor, small-business owner, or some other sort of self-employed, no. Taxes are deducted automatically from your paycheck by your employer from every paycheck. At the end of the year you need to file a tax return, and you can do this yourself for free. But even most paid tax return services usually only cost ~$50-$150 for the average worker.

>he also claimed that "sales tax" had local, state and federal taxes applied, so while it varies from state to state and city to city; it generally ends up being about 18-20%, which is in-line with VAT in most Euro countries. And, as a general rule, a state with higher sales tax will usually have lower (or no) state income tax, and vice versa.

There is no federal sales tax in the US. It does vary from state to state, but it ranges from 0% to ~10%, nowhere near 20%.

>He made a lot of comments about certain mandatory insurances

The only mandatory insurances are car insurance (and even then it's only mandatory if you want to drive a car) and health insurance (and even that has only been mandatory since the ACA passed, and all the enforcement provisions of that have been gutted). The cost to an employee for decent health insurance is usually going to range from $0 a month to a several thousand a month, but the average is something like ~$700 a month for an individual to get coverage and ~$1,400 for family coverage.

Public transport outside of major cities does suck, but I don't think that's easily fixable. Something a lot of Europeans don't realize is that the US is way, way, way, way less dense than Europe. The US has 33.7 people per square km, the entire EU is 116.2 people per square km. public transit isn't really feasible because the costs to provide it go up almost exponentially with lower population density.

>I'm not sure, I don't know everything, but after talking with him I didn't feel bad for being a "poor euro" anymore, because while the absolute "amount" of money he earned was much greater, the amount that he could actually use was lower.

Even after accounting for things in Europe like free healthcare, the actual amount of spending power the typical American has is actually still far, far greater than that enjoyed by the typical European. The metric you can look at to see this is consumption: ~$38,000 per capita for the US in 2017, vs $28,000 for Switzerland, $23,000 for the UK, etc.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_household...

PPP and other factors make a one-to-one comparison difficult, but Americans have far more spending money left after taxes, and that combined with them making more money in general makes Americans far more wealthy. Especially in the software dev industry.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#103
post #25
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

despite pay gap shown time and time again to be fiction, government monkeys are still dancing to that out of key tune.

Overall in developed countries the pay gap has largely been closed over the last few decades, but remaining gaps are not fiction. There are still real and unjustifiable gaps in some employment sectors, especially in a region as diverse as the EU. Pay gaps in some Eastern European countries for example still persist.

last time I checked countries like Romania (E Europe) had the smallest pay gap in Europe. the issue is usually in countries like Germany, Switzerland or Netherlands.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#104
post #6

These laws don’t have the effect people think they will in tech given that “salary” is often a small part of someone’s overall compensation. A role might say it has a $150,000 “salary” but if someone has say $300,000 in RSUs on top of that then they’re really making $450,000 with a $150,000 “salary”. Eg in the US employers must publish the “salary” for certain visa applicants, but those numbers are often only a small…

You do understand that there is more to the workforce than engineers at SV startups and big tech, right?

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#105
post #2

The meat is page 5 under "The changes the proposal would bring". Highlights: * Job-seekers would have a right to information about the pay range of posts they apply for * Employers would be prohibited from asking about an applicant's pay history * Employees would have a right to ask their employer for sex-disaggregated information on the average pay of other workers doing the same work or work of equal value. * Emplo…

> Employers would be prohibited from asking about an applicant's pay history Aw, that was one of the fun moments when getting my current job. I moved from private sector to public sector and they're like "You understand that the previous pay you listed is more than our boss's boss, the director of our entire org unit gets paid right?". Yes, yes I do. Which is why when you asked at interview "Why do you want this role…

This is weird because it's such an easy question to answer.

"Performance management isn't an exact science and if everyone knew everyone else's pay, it would be total chaos and nothing would get done."

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#107
post #20

Is there anything in this text that would prevent a company from posting offers with very large ranges? "this position salary can be from €35k to 75k€ depending on multiple factors" Such ranges would render it pointless

> Such ranges would render it pointless

Employers will pull shenanigans, surely, but it's a start. And when the lower bound doesn't compare well with competing offers, the employer might risk losing the best.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Employers would be prohibited from asking about an applicant's pay history Aw, that was one of the fun moments when getting my current job. I moved from private sector to public sector and they're like "You understand that the previous pay you listed is more than our boss's boss, the director of our entire org unit gets paid right?". Yes, yes I do. Which is why when you asked at interview "Why do you want this role…

The reality is that not everyone brings equal value to an org. Some are rockstars and others are meh. It’s natural, and you should be incentivized to improve.

This is a bs argument. If there is actually a "rockstar" and a "meh", they should be at different levels with clear payscale.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#109
post #97
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are already effectively outlawed in most of the EU. E.g. in Germany, you must be paid at least 50% of your current salary while the clause is active, for a maximum of two years and "unreasonably broad" clauses are invalid.

If by “effectively outlawed” you mean “not effectively outlawed at all”, then yes, sure. How many people can survive for 2 years on 50% lower salary? In addition, the biggest impediment of non-competes is actually the inflexibility (“your job offer sounds amazing, I’ll start working in 18-24 months!”).

The point is that will very very rarely happen because how many companies are actually going to pay that much to stop you working at a competitor?

And if they ARE willing to do it, then you probably held a very high status job there and so 50% will still be a lot.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#110
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Employers would be prohibited from asking about an applicant's pay history Aw, that was one of the fun moments when getting my current job. I moved from private sector to public sector and they're like "You understand that the previous pay you listed is more than our boss's boss, the director of our entire org unit gets paid right?". Yes, yes I do. Which is why when you asked at interview "Why do you want this role…

Not quite the same, but when asked by a State agency what it would take for to go on full time I gave a number and was told that is more than the Governor makes. My response was well he also gets a house! We had a good laugh together.

Well I looked my Governor up and he makes $175k. California’s Governor makes the most at $201k.

I toyed at the idea of some Federal government IT jobs. An agency was trying their best to pay well and the level was similar to a civilian who has a PhD or MD doing federal work but still only a little more than the median software dev salary.

Post reply on HN