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EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

europarl.europa.eu

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Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#171

Post by giantg2 »

efsavage wrote: post #160
tialaramex wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Employers would be prohibited from asking about an applicant's pay history Aw, that was one of the fun moments when getting my current job. I moved from private sector to public sector and they're like "You understand that the previous pay you listed is more than our boss's boss, the director of our entire org unit gets paid right?". Yes, yes I do. Which is why when you asked at interview "Why do you want this role…

I once took a break from software and applied to be a cashier at Barnes & Noble (just to get out of the house). It was entertaining to watch the manager hastily scan the application for a $7/hour, 10 hours/week job and then pause and try to find a polite way to break it to me that they weren't going to meet the $180k I made at my previous job.

I worked a second job at Lowes one summer/fall. Similar story there - tons of questions from coworkers and customers about what I'm doing working there.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#172

Post by absove »

tomp wrote: post #97
ATsch wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are already effectively outlawed in most of the EU. E.g. in Germany, you must be paid at least 50% of your current salary while the clause is active, for a maximum of two years and "unreasonably broad" clauses are invalid.

If by “effectively outlawed” you mean “not effectively outlawed at all”, then yes, sure. How many people can survive for 2 years on 50% lower salary? In addition, the biggest impediment of non-competes is actually the inflexibility (“your job offer sounds amazing, I’ll start working in 18-24 months!”).

Isn't it the case that you can still work elsewhere in the meantime, just not for direct competitors? So you may get 70-80% of your previous salary working outside your more lucrative niche, but your previous employer still pays you 50% of your old salary to make up for it? Surely a non-compete can't be so broad that it forces you into unemployment.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#173

Post by marcosdumay »

tomp wrote: post #97
ATsch wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are already effectively outlawed in most of the EU. E.g. in Germany, you must be paid at least 50% of your current salary while the clause is active, for a maximum of two years and "unreasonably broad" clauses are invalid.

If by “effectively outlawed” you mean “not effectively outlawed at all”, then yes, sure. How many people can survive for 2 years on 50% lower salary? In addition, the biggest impediment of non-competes is actually the inflexibility (“your job offer sounds amazing, I’ll start working in 18-24 months!”).

> How many people can survive for 2 years on 50% lower salary?

You mean 50% of their previous salary plus a full salary working in a related field?

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#174

Post by trashtester »

londons_explore wrote: post #114
jakey_bakey wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is weird because it's such an easy question to answer. "Performance management isn't an exact science and if everyone knew everyone else's pay, it would be total chaos and nothing would get done."

If everyone knew everyone else's pay, we'd end up paying everyone more money, since those overpaid will complain, and those underpaid will shut up. Such a system will encourage rigid pay schedules (ie. all engineers with 5 years experience get X, non-negotiable). Rigid pay like that advantages poor performers, and good people leave. The end result is a company giving pay transparency ends up either with a much bigger…

In companies making a good profit, salaries may go up in cases like this. But some companies may not be able to pay everyone the same they pay the best performers.

If such transparency is mandated throughout a region, the best talent can react in a number of ways: 1) They can leave the region. 2) They can all work in the same few companies, either those requireing top talent or consulting companies. (Or go solo.) 3) Employers can find alternative ways to compensate them. (Generous benefits, plenty of approved overtime, generes travel refunds or any other compensation that does not require reporting) 4) Top employees can scale back their effort, and either have more free time or do side hustles. Employers may even encourage this, as it may be preferrable to those people leaving.

Most of the above will make it harder to run highly innovative companies (presumably those that require top talent), and in the end, I suppose this will drag the economy of the entire region down.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#175

Post by shawabawa3 »

HPsquared wrote: post #123
londons_explore wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If everyone knew everyone else's pay, we'd end up paying everyone more money, since those overpaid will complain, and those underpaid will shut up. Such a system will encourage rigid pay schedules (ie. all engineers with 5 years experience get X, non-negotiable). Rigid pay like that advantages poor performers, and good people leave. The end result is a company giving pay transparency ends up either with a much bigger…

The workaround is to formally give good performers a different job title with accompanying higher pay.

Or have discretionary bonuses

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#176

Post by jimbob45 »

skummetmaelk wrote: post #129
andai wrote: post #96

My admittedly limited understanding of the gender pay gap is that it is based on gender differences in interests (eg. career-wise), differences in willingness to work long hours (especially with age), and differences in temperament, ie. women on the whole having lower assertiveness and thus being less likely to ask for higher salaries and raises. The "equal work" part takes care of the first two points, ie. the type…

> To emphasize the importance of negotiation: several friends of mine told me their bosses said they could have started with nearly double their starting salaries if they had negotiated better, so this aspect makes a huge difference, at least in engineering. Which clearly means that equal work doesn't pay equally. Surely your colleagues did not do half the work of those who negotiated a higher starting salary? In fac…

Unless you’re on an assembly line, there is no such thing as “equal work”. Several of my colleagues and I share the same title, yet the women with that title objectively produce less than the men and absolutely deserve less pay (at my company).

Is that because of sexism? Or because we judge the individual, not the gender?

This seems like a backdoor for Socialism where this backwards logic is used to justify paying everyone the same rate and so people who are massively productive end up subsidizing those who are useless.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#177

Post by giantg2 »

jakey_bakey wrote: post #105
tialaramex wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Employers would be prohibited from asking about an applicant's pay history Aw, that was one of the fun moments when getting my current job. I moved from private sector to public sector and they're like "You understand that the previous pay you listed is more than our boss's boss, the director of our entire org unit gets paid right?". Yes, yes I do. Which is why when you asked at interview "Why do you want this role…

This is weird because it's such an easy question to answer. "Performance management isn't an exact science and if everyone knew everyone else's pay, it would be total chaos and nothing would get done."

"Performance management isn't an exact science and if everyone knew everyone else's pay, it would be total chaos and nothing would get done."

How's that work for the GS structure then? Or for union jobs in various sectors?

The only reason chaos would ensure is if there were extensive unexplainable and unfair practices.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#178

Post by globalise83 »

tomp wrote: post #97
ATsch wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are already effectively outlawed in most of the EU. E.g. in Germany, you must be paid at least 50% of your current salary while the clause is active, for a maximum of two years and "unreasonably broad" clauses are invalid.

If by “effectively outlawed” you mean “not effectively outlawed at all”, then yes, sure. How many people can survive for 2 years on 50% lower salary? In addition, the biggest impediment of non-competes is actually the inflexibility (“your job offer sounds amazing, I’ll start working in 18-24 months!”).

Alternatively put: how many people would be willing to take a 2-year paid holiday on 50% of their current salary, with the option to work as many hours as they like in any non-competing industry in the interim? Sounds like it could be a pretty sweet deal if you found a good job for those two years.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#179

Post by machinerychorus »

seneca wrote: post #98
zibzab wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this any different from the normal state of affairs? You think you work too much and are paid too little? Then leave, this has nothing to do with "equal pay".

> How is this any different from the normal state of affairs? They explained that in their post. They aren't getting a raise because it would create a discrepancy with the pay bands. This is exactly the type of bureaucracy being enshrined in law here. It removes discretion and disincentivises those who are capable. I believe their point is that it's thematically similar to the company policy they chafed under, and we…

but that's still a diversion from the real problem: their boss isn't willing to give them a raise. Even with this legislation, if the boss wanted to give a raise they could simply change the salary and give a new title. The "pay bands" is just another excuse from a bad manager, and if the pay bands didn't exist then the manager would just find a different excuse.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#180

Post by Cthulhu_ »

marsRoverDev wrote: post #127
tialaramex wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Employers would be prohibited from asking about an applicant's pay history Aw, that was one of the fun moments when getting my current job. I moved from private sector to public sector and they're like "You understand that the previous pay you listed is more than our boss's boss, the director of our entire org unit gets paid right?". Yes, yes I do. Which is why when you asked at interview "Why do you want this role…

The problem at least in France is that prospective employers will demand your pay slips from your previous job. If you are early in your career, they will use this to depress your wages as much as possible, making arguments like "well, we can't just give you a 40% uplift". So if your first employer screws you, the ones that follow can as well. Personally, I would just forge one with a much higher pay level - but most…

That's absolutely shit, and that practice will end once this legislation passes.
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