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EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

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Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#141

Post by simonh »

Levitz wrote: post #58
simonh wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not fiction, that's hyperbole, but there are factors other than gender by itself that accounts for a lot of the remaining disparity between men and women's pay. Taking a career break to have children, historical 'steering' of women away from STEM subjects in education, some apparent natural tendency for many women to avoid such subjects even when they have a free choice, a tendency for women to not challenge the…

The idea that the average income for men and women isn't the same is not fiction at all, it's completely real. It is also not the idea that is frequently paraded around when talking about a pay gap, since it can actually be argued against in sensible terms, for example, if women simply ask for raises less often than men, is that really unfair? What more often than not happens is that the idea of a pay gap is presente…

It depends on where you are talking about and what the jobs are. As I pointed out there are some countries and employment sectors in the EU that do have persistent pay gaps that can't be explained away by life choices, and so it still makes sense for the EU to work on this issue, no matter how tired you might be of haring about it.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#142

Post by sk0g »

jakey_bakey wrote: post #105
tialaramex wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Employers would be prohibited from asking about an applicant's pay history Aw, that was one of the fun moments when getting my current job. I moved from private sector to public sector and they're like "You understand that the previous pay you listed is more than our boss's boss, the director of our entire org unit gets paid right?". Yes, yes I do. Which is why when you asked at interview "Why do you want this role…

This is weird because it's such an easy question to answer. "Performance management isn't an exact science and if everyone knew everyone else's pay, it would be total chaos and nothing would get done."

My go to answer for that question has become "not enough to keep me there". Worded a bit nicer usually, though!

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#143

Post by [deleted] »

dgellow wrote: post #78
tomp wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Transparency is good, but what about freedom of choice, to enable individuals to act on that information? Ideal would be outlawing non-competes.

What do you mean by freedom of choice here? I don't see how that relates to the topic at hand.

[deleted]

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#144

Post by ricktdotorg »

marsRoverDev wrote: post #127
tialaramex wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Employers would be prohibited from asking about an applicant's pay history Aw, that was one of the fun moments when getting my current job. I moved from private sector to public sector and they're like "You understand that the previous pay you listed is more than our boss's boss, the director of our entire org unit gets paid right?". Yes, yes I do. Which is why when you asked at interview "Why do you want this role…

The problem at least in France is that prospective employers will demand your pay slips from your previous job. If you are early in your career, they will use this to depress your wages as much as possible, making arguments like "well, we can't just give you a 40% uplift". So if your first employer screws you, the ones that follow can as well. Personally, I would just forge one with a much higher pay level - but most…

good grief, that is shocking (and presumably legal)! well, i guess not for long, assuming that FR adheres to such rules.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#145

Post by tomp »

Bayart wrote: post #121
tomp wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If by “effectively outlawed” you mean “not effectively outlawed at all”, then yes, sure. How many people can survive for 2 years on 50% lower salary? In addition, the biggest impediment of non-competes is actually the inflexibility (“your job offer sounds amazing, I’ll start working in 18-24 months!”).

The assumption is that a job that would incentivize non-competes would be so well paid that 50% would still be comfortable, isn't it ?

From my experience working in finance in London, no.

Good salary? Sure! Able to live comfortably with 50% salary (when rent is 30-50% of take-home pay)? Zero chance.

In practice the biggest impediment to even longer non-competes is legal risk; the tiny chance of an employee challenging the non-compete in court and the court ruling unreasonable or overly broad, would result in all other employees knowing their non-competes are effectively void.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#146

Post by ksec »

pimterry wrote: post #2

The meat is page 5 under "The changes the proposal would bring". Highlights: * Job-seekers would have a right to information about the pay range of posts they apply for * Employers would be prohibited from asking about an applicant's pay history * Employees would have a right to ask their employer for sex-disaggregated information on the average pay of other workers doing the same work or work of equal value. * Emplo…

>* Employers would be prohibited from asking about an applicant's pay history

Would they be able to contact previous employer for this information. One of the thing I really hate is the amount of leverage your previous employer has over you.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#147

Post by gassiss »

dijonman2 wrote: post #77
tialaramex wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Employers would be prohibited from asking about an applicant's pay history Aw, that was one of the fun moments when getting my current job. I moved from private sector to public sector and they're like "You understand that the previous pay you listed is more than our boss's boss, the director of our entire org unit gets paid right?". Yes, yes I do. Which is why when you asked at interview "Why do you want this role…

The reality is that not everyone brings equal value to an org. Some are rockstars and others are meh. It’s natural, and you should be incentivized to improve.

The actual reality is that your salary is not tied to your value, but to your negotiation skills (carried mostly by your leverage when you receive the offer)

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#148

Post by darebak »

ethbr0 wrote: post #135
tomp wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gender is a made-up concept with no sensible definition. The defining quality is sex . Having children is simply more burdensome and time-consuming for women, no way around it (except artificial wombs in the distant future). I've advocated "child-bonus" before (i.e. paying companies extra when their employees get pregnant and on maternity leave), but I doubt that idea will gain any popularity. When even in the most e…

I've always thought it's insane that many developed countries' governments fret about their birth rates, then do absolutely nothing to incentivize having children from an individual's career perspective. It's not unreasonable social calculus to just say "We the government are going to pay you your potential lost earnings, if you decide to have a child." In the US at least, existing policy is mostly targeted at family…

AFAIK Hungary is trying something like that, I am not sure about the specifics but I think that for every child you have the government lowers your income tax and after your third child you don't pay any income tax. There are some other measures too, all of them were implemented relatively recently, let's say 2015 although I am not sure.

As for the results, I guess it's still early to tell: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT.IN?location...

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#149

Post by Gareth321 »

pimterry wrote: post #2

The meat is page 5 under "The changes the proposal would bring". Highlights: * Job-seekers would have a right to information about the pay range of posts they apply for * Employers would be prohibited from asking about an applicant's pay history * Employees would have a right to ask their employer for sex-disaggregated information on the average pay of other workers doing the same work or work of equal value. * Emplo…

>Employees would have a right to ask their employer for sex-disaggregated information on the average pay of other workers doing the same work or work of equal value.

This is literally impossible in anything other than rote manual labour. Even then, I'm not convinced this is possible.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#150

Post by simonh »

gjulianm wrote: post #44
simonh wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not fiction, that's hyperbole, but there are factors other than gender by itself that accounts for a lot of the remaining disparity between men and women's pay. Taking a career break to have children, historical 'steering' of women away from STEM subjects in education, some apparent natural tendency for many women to avoid such subjects even when they have a free choice, a tendency for women to not challenge the…

> Taking a career break to have children, historical 'steering' of women away from STEM subjects in education, some apparent natural tendency for many women to avoid such subjects even when they have a free choice, a tendency for women to not challenge their compensation or push for raises compared to men, women's tendency to avoid overtime compared to men which can affect their advancement prospects. I mean, all of…

Yes that's fair enough, it's a bigger issue than just a pay gap. That's a symptom.
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