Live data from Hacker News

Tell HN: YouTube and how my wife lost 7 years of work

news.ycombinator.com

441–450 of 454 posts

Re: Tell HN: YouTube and how my wife lost 7 years of work

#441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am very curious to get a tad more context about the bank issue, if that's straightforward. Also, I have no idea if this will work, but: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19418165 - a bit of quote-googling (recommended to verify) suggests this person may use gmail. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It's worth a try, thanks :) The bank (Square) issue is that I ordered something online, FedEx screwed up the delivery, it got returned to merchant, but merchant does not respond. I asked bank for chargeback, but they can't do one as the package got delivered (back to the merchant). Their support script only allows chargebacks when there is no delivery at all. They tried to get me to persuade FedEx to change the packa…

Now I'm curious to find out how it works out.

That comment was from a few years ago so the poster may be relatively distant to Tumblr nowadays and it might take a few additional people-hops (if it doesn't fall through) to get anywhere. I also wonder if old/deactivated non-public account data is held indefinitely (eg, private messages)... it probably is...

Regarding Stripe, wow, I admittedly didn't quite read the name the first time through the paragraph, and was very surprised when I actually noticed ("...that Stripe?"). I guess it makes sense; they're similar in scale and incumbance to the big-N stuffy local banks now. A good reminder that class-leading web design isn't necessarily a function of broad-spectrum competence across the board, just a very well-paid design team lol

I take it you can't reopen an account? :/

(Uh, if you'd even want to...)

Re: Tell HN: YouTube and how my wife lost 7 years of work

#442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

:) I hope OP got in touch. Thanks for doing the thing. Reading the thread made me think of a curious idea. It's got a couple layers of nuance, but could ultimately be really cool. In short: have a proactively-updated list somewhere that shows the presentation and content of every single email that will be sent before someone is due to lose access to a given service or their whole account. For example this could look…

It's not a terrible idea, and personally, I believe we should be doing more proactive reach-out when events like this are happening. Thing like text messages, push notifications, and big red scary banners on the home pages of unrelated products. I'll file a Feature Request internally, but given the scope I can't imagine things will be too quick. Disc: Googler, not in YouTube

If making changes to Google-side reach-out is actually possible, that's absolutely the far more realistic scenario here. My previous post is more of a Rube-Goldberg overengineered attempt at making the hockey puck meet the stick rather than the other way around.

Side-channeling "here's what our emails look like" kinda feels like kicking the info out a side door or something, which I can totally see internal clearances and perhaps legal just not liking the look of... and even if that approach did succeed, the less-straightforward internal handling associated with such an indirect strategy may well incur delays in updates and perhaps even occasional accidental article deletion (where the replacement articles wind up at different URLs and people have to take ages to find them... yep, Rube-Goldberg machine).

I can imagine a new broad scope in myaccount.google for "enhanced notifications" "if there is any suspicious activity with my account", with an associated stronger connection between account flagging events being classified in with suspicious activity in general.

Perhaps I'd first add other users' information under People & Sharing, allow them access to the relevant info in Data & privacy, then opt them in to security notifications in Security. (Where do I send my PM application again? ;) )

I'd probably want to be able to add direct SMS numbers (handled "magically" or "hands-off", like one-time verification codes etc, with the exception of being stored long-term) so that in worst-case situations if an entire group of accounts gets super-nuked or whatever (which presumably blacklists the contact methods associated with those accounts, including phone numbers - hence the idea of magical handling) I still receive last-resort notifications in case of edge-case mistakes. Obviously third-party email addresses would be ideal to add too (with the requisite amount of confirmation bustlework - I'm reminded of the absolute tantrum Gmail very appropriately pulls when you enable forwarding, maybe that would be too strong here but I imagine it might make for good inspiration). Adding Google accounts to send FCM push notifications to multiple stakeholders could also be a good idea (and, FWIW, may also create a helpful source of high-signal data to contribute to cross-account security analyses processes).

Generally I'm trying to cover 2-3 of broad bases here: that of having last-resort notifications still function in scenarios where the AI mistakenly decides everything about an account (or worse, set of accounts) is worst-case-scenario not-ham; making it possible to send those notifications to multiple users/contacts, including contacts that do not typically have access to a particular account; and making sure the notifications and pings actually get through even when the system really doesn't like someone.

Big scary banners on unrelated products is a great idea! I would never have thought of trying to vie for something like that, would have thought it would be possible.

Hmm, could you modify the user account avatar service so that if the user is requesting their own avatar they get served a giant exclamation instead? That could help serve as a perpetual reminder that would show up *everywhere* - Google homepage, account icons across the web and in random Android apps, etc etc. (Potential blocking issue: things might cache the avatar and get stuck.)

I've also occasionally seen how the homepage occasionally shows a very small infobox with a bit of text in it toward the lower quarter of the page. Perhaps this could be hijacked to prioritize showing the scary warning as well.

Totally understand that this'll move at "eventual consistency" pace :)

Feel free to copy the text of this and my parent (dumpster-fire...) comment into the feature request if that's helpful.

My motivation here is mostly a reaction to low-grade obsessive paranoia about AI glitching out on my or my family's accounts, and a strong interest in doing whatever I can to mitigate the fallout in the worst case scenario.

Thanks very much for replying!

Re: Tell HN: YouTube and how my wife lost 7 years of work

#443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s astonishing how quickly a silly hat becomes literal violent propaganda. I mean, in the same minute. Could you please explain?

Like if I click an ad for, say, hunting gear… I’m instantly inundated with “thin blue line” and not very subtly threatening “guns rights” stuff and pretty much every single thing I would expect to see in a far right mob.

Interesting, thanks.

Re: Tell HN: YouTube and how my wife lost 7 years of work

#444
post #57

Is there an effort to build a solution to problems like this that don't rely on a friend of a friend from Google 'fixing' things. At some point the FDA didn't exist and we decided to create it to regulate an industry. At some point, fair credit reporting didn't exist and we decided to create that to regulate a different industry. Is there a real and lasting solution to this problem that the firm hand of democracy can…

>At some point the FDA didn't exist and we decided to create it to regulate an industry. FDA, youtube edition: alphabet is the only company approved to host videos for public consumption, because they're the only one that has an approved copyright/hate speech filter (regulated for safety, efficacy, ADA compliance, and to be non-discriminatory). All other sites are prohibited from operating unless they spend $5B to ge…

I don't think regulating access to online accounts has to include anything about video hosting specifically. We need more of an "online bill of rights", which includes a right to download any data you've created before an account is closed. We could also throw in a right to privacy.

The bill of rights in the Constitution doesn't prohibit people from opening businesses - I don't see why an online bill of rights would do so

Re: Tell HN: YouTube and how my wife lost 7 years of work

#445
post #430
post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if I lose access to gmail the first thing I do will be switching all important online services to a new email. I’m curious though, which online services would be really bad to lose access to (for you personally)?

How are you going to log in to anything using Google SSO? It's not the email address that logs you in, it's the authentication handshake from your google account. Anything using 2FA, or one time passcodes to your email address for new devices? One example is when I lost access to an email account tied to a Digital Ocean account. It had been hosting a project VM and I never had a need to log in to it until the project…

I never use my personal gmail account for anything work related. For 2FA I always use my phone.

But I agree that there might be situations where it could be bad, especially if you work as a consultant/freelancer, and/or own a small business.

Re: Tell HN: YouTube and how my wife lost 7 years of work

#446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I second this. I can't fathom that on HN of all sites people recommend renting backup space from the same big tech companies that continuously fuck over people. Setting up a NAS is not magic. Setting up two isn't either. Put one in you parents basement and check on it once every year when you visit for Christmas. If you don't need 16TB go with an SSD (although with the current contamination situation not the best tim…

Aren't you making it sound a bit too easy and straightforward than it actually is? It might be that simple for you but buying a NAS device like from synology can be pricey too, setting it all up so it is secure but network accessible, and then also handling possible drive failures down the line (and the chances of that are much higher than google fucking you over IMHO) is much more than an average non-tech-savvy user…

You're making this too complicated. Upload the video to youtube, then plug in your 16TB USB drive and copy the file there as well, then unplug the drive and put it back on the shelf. When you fill up one drive, you buy another, and the first one stays in the closet, forever. That's it.

If youtube deletes your account, you take the drives out of the closet and re-upload. If a drive fails, you use youtube-dl to repopulate it.

The only way this fails is if a drive dies / house fire on the same day that youtube deletes your account. If you are really that paranoid about it, keep a second copy of each drive at work / home. But you really, really don't need to.

Re: Tell HN: YouTube and how my wife lost 7 years of work

#447
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The danger is not just that Google may one day delete your data, maybe. The danger is that an advertising surveillance company that has leveraged its ad surveillance into hundreds of billions of dollars per year in revenue has access to (and uses!) 100% of your personal correspondence, today and every day, no maybe. Additionally, they regularly turn such data over to government snoops, without due process or probable…

> has access to (and uses!) 100% of your personal correspondence I have nothing nice to say about google, so I'm not defending them, but didn't they announce our email is not getting scanned any more? Given that they reversed the do-no-evil motto, the sad part is that I guess they have enough information about us not to bother reading our emails.

They said email was not being scanned for adwords and similar products. They never said it wasn’t being scanned for other reasons.

Re: Tell HN: YouTube and how my wife lost 7 years of work

#448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct, and if that were the end of it, people like myself who are concerned about it could rightly be labeled paranoid. However, the collected data create an intimate, detailed portrait of you. Data aggregators can know how old you are, your general state of health, where you have been, your interests, including sexual interests, your political views both expressed and unexpressed, your associations, your a…

>model you and your behavior more accurately than could your own spouse. To me this is a natural thing. It makes sense that computers are better at remembering and interpreting data than humans. YouTube is able to recommend me videos much better than I could myself. I don't remember the names of all the people I like, but YouTube does.

> To me this is a natural thing. It makes sense that computers are better at remembering and interpreting data than humans. YouTube is able to recommend me videos much better than I could myself. I don't remember the names of all the people I like, but YouTube does.

This is a true statement that doesn't address any of the arguments; a non-sequitur. Yes, computers are better at remembering and interpreting (some) data than humans.

What does that have to do with the humans who access and use that data for their own, very human ends? You skipped that part.

Re: Tell HN: YouTube and how my wife lost 7 years of work

#449
What I dont't understand is that you created 700 critical videos and you did not have any backup of them anywhere?

I have a Youtube channel but I know Google can remove the content whenever they want. In 2022, it's time to acknowledge whatever you update inna GAFAM service is not safe and belongs literally to a trash bin with an unknown timer.

Good luck to get your video back

Re: Tell HN: YouTube and how my wife lost 7 years of work

#450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you present some excellent ideas. And I would guess some of them depend on the reason for termination (although often the reason selected by some automated processes makes no sense). In the OP's scenario, for instance, YouTube could have at least allowed his partner to export all the videos. There are some definite easy wins to be made by players in this space that don't even involve them having to hire more…

Thanks! For the things that do require human review, I wonder what the best way is to scale that. It actually might be a potential business opportunity. Gig economy social media moderation. Pay $50 and YouTube contracts out with a company for $40 to pay a subcontractor $30 to spend an hour reviewing your appeal and account history and making a recommendation. It has an icky protection racket feel to it and would ince…

And while the quality of random gig economy contractors would be pretty poor, it certainly could not be worse than no support at all as they are bound to make the correct determinations some of the time.
Post reply on HN