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Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

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151–160 of 470 posts

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#151

That's dumb. What they should do instead is tax the gas that will flow through North Stream 2 to be as expensive as the one going through other routes and transfer this tax directly to Ukraine budget as aid let's say for the next 30 years, irrevocably. And possibly partially to Poland because it has very similar concerns but to a lesser degree than Ukraine.

And who's going to pay this tax in the end?

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#152
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is not stupid to become depended on Russian gas or oil supply. The deal they signed with Russia is for 38 billion cubic meters of gas sent through "Power of Siberia" gas pipe (for comparison, in 2006 Poland purchase from Russia 206 billion cubic meters) and this throughput will be reached in 2025. Russia has no practical way to transfer gas designated for Europe to China, there is no pipe they can use as gas co…

> Taiwan, Philippines, Japan... Come on, China is bad enough as it is, no need to overdo it with imaginary threats. (Edit: wow impressed by how fast these downvotes came. I wonder if it was triggered by the “China is bad” part or my point that a Chinese invasion of Japan or Philippines is a complete fantasy. In case it's the second part, you should probably take a break from American news…)

I assume you’re interpreting the comment as “invasion” of Japan or the Philippines. Which I agree is unlikely

What is more likely is China’s Sphere of Influence extending well beyond Taiwan. No invasion needed or even the installation of a friendly government - just a government that won’t pushback.

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#153

That is not remotely pulling the plug. This is "thinking about it" again. They already stopped accreditation a few weeks ago, otherwise it would already transport gas as the pipeline is already filled. They just say that they have officially stopped the process which they more or less already did. I think in a year it might come online again if the news cycle is on another topic. Overall it will be much more expensiv…

No post body was provided.

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#154
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is not stupid to become depended on Russian gas or oil supply. The deal they signed with Russia is for 38 billion cubic meters of gas sent through "Power of Siberia" gas pipe (for comparison, in 2006 Poland purchase from Russia 206 billion cubic meters) and this throughput will be reached in 2025. Russia has no practical way to transfer gas designated for Europe to China, there is no pipe they can use as gas co…

> Taiwan, Philippines, Japan... Come on, China is bad enough as it is, no need to overdo it with imaginary threats. (Edit: wow impressed by how fast these downvotes came. I wonder if it was triggered by the “China is bad” part or my point that a Chinese invasion of Japan or Philippines is a complete fantasy. In case it's the second part, you should probably take a break from American news…)

Any disputed island (in the eyes of China) will be up for grabs. It won't stop at Taiwan. It'll be any non-nuclear power they can push around. That 9-dash line will become a reality.

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#155

Am I the only one who thinks that the reality of this crisis is a lot more nuanced than what Western media shows us? Same as with Taiwan. It's an island off China and rebels flew there at some point and started to govern Taiwan as if it was theirs. China always insisted that Taiwan is part of China but because they never used military force to put an end to the game which those rebels played on that island it became…

Country formation is a complex topic, and there is certainly no "objectively speaking right thing" like you said. Rebels/insurgent forces start to become legitimate leaders of their land and country at some point, though every one has different definition of where that point is that suits their liking.

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#156
post #20

The accreditation process was already halted, so nothing new has happened. Nord Stream 2 will eventually deliver cheap gas to Germany. This is just political theatre. Wait till Russia stops sending gas through Ukraine and paying Ukraine billions for the privilege (a move that can be easily justified from the Russian side as 'counter sanctions'). Then you'll hear the Germans scream XD

My thought was Russia would retaliate by just turning off the gas supply period. Then I was wondering who could hold out longer, Russia or Europe?

I didn’t know until this article and comments that Nordstream 2 was already effectively on pause.

I kept waiting for something about the situation to pop up here where I could get opinion and info from actual grownups vs the rest of the internet.

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#157
post #93
post #53

My personal opinion: All this Ukraine stuff is also supported by China. I bet they are ready to buy Russian oil and gas to compensate even if this costs them more than getting them from the open market. Why? Because this is a wonderful test drive to check how the West (sorry for the approximation) is reacting to a country theoretically supported by the West being invaded by another one. For me, the next one on the li…

China is not stupid to become depended on Russian gas or oil supply. The deal they signed with Russia is for 38 billion cubic meters of gas sent through "Power of Siberia" gas pipe (for comparison, in 2006 Poland purchase from Russia 206 billion cubic meters) and this throughput will be reached in 2025. Russia has no practical way to transfer gas designated for Europe to China, there is no pipe they can use as gas co…

Russia is already dependant on China. Without China they would not be able to weather economic sanctions and a China-Russia (plus minor countries like Belarus) is forming a new anti-Nato block.

The logical next move if the pipeline to Europe falls through is for those speedy Chinese builders to build a pipeline. Russia isn't going to defect and even if they do it wouldn't cripple China. It's in China's interest to keep the current political climate in Russia, since if Putin falls to a pro-democratic group like Ukraine did, Russia will snap hard to Nato. And to keep that political climate Russia has to move hydrocarbons.

Personally, I don't really see a way out of this. China is going to be more powerful than Nato. There is no reasonable way out of it. The sooner we recognize this, the faster we'll isolate our economies from Russian and Chinese influence.

This is partially our fault for not doing a Marshal Plan Part Duex in Russia / Ukraine after the iron curtain fell, but really the main problem is that we extended a hand out in good faith to China and it didn't break the way we wanted it to. Rather than join the club and be the most influential member they've decided to real politik and be the next hegemon. It didn't have to be this way, even with the Chinese Communist Party in charge. Vietnam is perfectly capable of joining the club (TPP) without a functioning democracy.

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#159
post #53

My personal opinion: All this Ukraine stuff is also supported by China. I bet they are ready to buy Russian oil and gas to compensate even if this costs them more than getting them from the open market. Why? Because this is a wonderful test drive to check how the West (sorry for the approximation) is reacting to a country theoretically supported by the West being invaded by another one. For me, the next one on the li…

The panda just wants to sit in the corner eating bamboo. Ultimately it will become so big, even the American eagle dares not challenge it.

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#160
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nuclear plants are not a real replacement to gas. First of all, a lot of gas gets used for heating - nuclear isn't useful there. Then it is used for providing flexible power, to ramp up and down as quickly as possible to follow the production of renewables. Only a small fraction of the gas goes into "base load" usage. So the government might look into the nuclear power plants to dampen the price level for electricity…

It also isn't politically feasible. Nuclear power needs subsidies and I doubt a green government will restart those. Government can be impulsive, but I don't see that happening again.

In Germany protest against nuclear weapons and nuclear energy was one of the core issues of the Green Party for the last 40 years. Restarting or extending the lifetime of existing plants would be political suicide for the current government.

If they're smart they can build support for modern designs, probably small nuclear, as long as they can convince their voter base that the risk of accidents and the problem of waste disposal are much smaller than with the outdated plants they helped close down.

From an economic perspective it's a hard sell compared to solar and wind plus storage, but with the resistance to new windfarms by NIMBYs you can probably justify some subsidies. The timescales involved are still a problem though.

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