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New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

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Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#221

Post by throwaway0a5e »

rbanffy wrote: post #71
udfalkso wrote: post #4

One egregiously loud motorcycle rolling through manhattan can be a nuisance to literally millions of people. This is unreasonable and a ticketing system like this makes a ton of sense. Police enforcement could probably solve the issue just as effectively. Cops ignore loud honking and loud cars when its right in front of them. If they would just stop ignoring such things the frequency would surely go down as well.

> Cops ignore loud honking and loud cars when its right in front of them. It allows for discretionary law enforcement. Cops love it. They can ignore it you if they like you, or fine you if they don't.

>They can ignore it you if they like you, or fine you if they don't

Or ignore everyone if their approval rating is in the toilet, which is what they're doing as much as they can right now.

HN screeches a lot about it but the meatspace people I talk to don't seem to mind.

Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#222

Post by [deleted] »

someguydave wrote: post #193
throwaway984393 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well as long as only 13 innocent unarmed people were unloaded on by law enforcement everything is fine

1. unarmed does not mean they were not a threat or innocent 2. No human endeavor is perfect. I am willing to accept some tragic mistakes in exchange for the prevention of crimes and the dissuasion of criminals.

[deleted]

Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#223

Post by darkwizard42 »

01100011 wrote: post #170
udfalkso wrote: post #4

One egregiously loud motorcycle rolling through manhattan can be a nuisance to literally millions of people. This is unreasonable and a ticketing system like this makes a ton of sense. Police enforcement could probably solve the issue just as effectively. Cops ignore loud honking and loud cars when its right in front of them. If they would just stop ignoring such things the frequency would surely go down as well.

I don't know what it's like where you live, but in California it increasingly looks like our law enforcement organizations are either dreadfully understaffed or failing miserably at enforcing basic traffic laws. I just drove to San Diego and back from the Bay Area and counted zero cops on the way down and two on the way back, and I returned on Super Bowl eve. In the south Bay Area, I regularly see folks intentionally…

I can't find the stat, but it was in an SF Chronicle article on police not doing anything about a homeless person tearing down a parklet, but in San Francisco, the number of traffic violations ticketed has gone from 10K+ to <1K in the same period... it is really astonishing how lax it has become and it looks like traffic and property crime is the least enforced.

Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#224

Post by 0_____0 »

jeffbee wrote: post #199
0_____0 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the DMV enforced smog checks for motorcycles this problem would disappear within the year - the aftermarket exhausts delete the catalytic system and mean that the output of oxides is actually higher than most cars. It's trivial to swap an exhaust but most riders won't bother to keep around an extra muffler just to swap it on every few years.

Even factory stock NOx emissions from motorcycles are ~1000x higher under California rules compared to light-duty cars and trucks.

From some brief googling it seems that catalytic systems haven't widely been implemented on motorcycles until fairly recently, so that ratio may be for motorcycles without any emissions equipment, even if left stock. That being said, my '05 BMW for sure had a cat. I haven't been able to find info on whether they're similarly effective compared to catalytics on modern cars.

Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#225

Post by stefan_ »

humanistbot wrote: post #18

On the one hand, I think red light cameras and automated speed traps are unconstitutional and there have been shady companies caught fixing them. I hate the idea of putting super sensitive microphones in public spaces and connecting them directly to police departments. But on the other hand, fuck loud cars and motorcycles, they are a menace to society, and they are the only thing that makes my blood boil, when they w…

Oh, that's fine, we'll just limit cars at the speed limit. They all ship with GPS for 20+ years, it's time to use it. Nobody needs to pay, nobody needs to simulate a PID controller.

Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#226

Post by seneca »

acdha wrote: post #209
01100011 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what it's like where you live, but in California it increasingly looks like our law enforcement organizations are either dreadfully understaffed or failing miserably at enforcing basic traffic laws. I just drove to San Diego and back from the Bay Area and counted zero cops on the way down and two on the way back, and I returned on Super Bowl eve. In the south Bay Area, I regularly see folks intentionally…

> The example she gave is that police now cannot intervene if they see an armed individual approaching a school. That sounds unbelievable but that's straight from the mouth of the local chief of police. It’s not true but it makes more sense if they’re saying that as a negotiating tactic: the police are banking that if the media coverage is dominated by stories about crime rising there will be a big reduction in suppo…

What inside knowledge do you have that indicates it's not true? You can't just assume something is false because it contradicts what you want to be true.

Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#227

Post by tqi »

lamontcg wrote: post #135

This is an excellent example for people concerned with privacy rights. In order to have nice things the population really needs to culturally understand that "with great power comes great responsibility". Instead we have a culture of entirely selfish individualism, so the popular backlash is that damn near everyone is this thread (including myself) applauds the erosion of privacy rights because we're fed up and sick…

> Instead we have a culture of entirely selfish individualism, so the popular backlash is that damn near everyone is this thread (including myself) applauds the erosion of privacy rights because we're fed up and sick of living in a society with assholes.

I dunno, I find this framing by "Privacy Advocates" to be a bit... hyperbolic. When every little thing is the first step to complete tyranny, nothing is. To me at least these things are tradeoffs, and in this case it seems worth it?

Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#228

Post by amf12 »

chickenpotpie wrote: post #187
cmeacham98 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What shitty red light cameras are these where the data is all secret? In my city, tickets from red light cameras include a video of the incident, which clearly shows the car and traffic light. Is that really how it works elsewhere, they just send you a ticket saying "we caught you running a red light, please pay fine"? What happens if you show up to court to contest, can't you just point out they have literally no ev…

it is extremely easy to edit a green light to a red light, just partially delay the feed. Data is meaningless.

> it is extremely easy to edit a green light to a red light, just partially delay the feed. Data is meaningless.

It is extremely easy to tamper with most evidence, and there are ways to detect tampering.

Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#229

Post by antiterra »

trgn wrote: post #138

Noise pollution is just one of the many reasons we should have never allowed cars to be the default mode of personal transportation. In practice, it is more quiet and peaceful at night in a dense walkable city neighborhood, than it is in the supposed bucolic suburbs or countryside. Purely because the first does not have cars. This enforcement is a great step, but the it's dabbling in the margins. Cars, and especially…

> Purely because the first does not have cars.

Not here in my suburb. The bulk of the noise comes almost entirely from katydids, crickets, cicadas, etc. There was plenty of car/truck noise at night in Manhattan, and it was particularly jarring when not among the hum of busier traffic.

Re: New York is using cameras with microphones to ticket loud cars

#230

Post by cmeacham98 »

causalmodels wrote: post #194
cmeacham98 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What shitty red light cameras are these where the data is all secret? In my city, tickets from red light cameras include a video of the incident, which clearly shows the car and traffic light. Is that really how it works elsewhere, they just send you a ticket saying "we caught you running a red light, please pay fine"? What happens if you show up to court to contest, can't you just point out they have literally no ev…

I'm not aware of governments just asking one to pay a fine. The thing that really bothers me is that it allows the state to perform legal action at scale. If a city, let's say Chicago, just started sending people ticket how many would just pay it? From what I've seen [0], my guess would be a lot. [0] https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2021/07/29/chicago-speed-camera...

I agree red light cameras are problematic for other reasons, but parent's claim specifically was that they were unconstitutional because the evidence can't be inspected.
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