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Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

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Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#421

Post by barbazoo »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #415
barbazoo wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It obviously depends on where you live and what you do in your job and how much you work and how hard. I'd argue though that, to say it in OP's words, most of us should get watery eyes every time we see our paychecks given how much time we spend actually working, what the work environment is and what that work entails. We're so incredibly lucky it's hard to fathom.

"We're so incredibly lucky it's hard to fathom." But we are not, in UK developers are slightly above average office workers, they have no advantage on lawyers, bankers, doctors, etc.

Personally I would still consider that lucky in the grand scheme of things. I'd never compare myself or the work I do to that of a doctor.

Is there some logical reason I'm missing why it should be any different than it is?

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#422

Post by icedchai »

erstwhileplumb wrote: post #404
strken wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my really good friends dropped out of his chemical engineering degree in the last semester to be a landscape gardener, and seems to enjoy it much more. It's been nearly a decade so far. He hasn't gone back. The tech meme of dropping out to pick up a trade is pretty funny at times, especially when it's coming from people who couldn't change a doorknob, but I don't think jobs are one-size-fits-all, and I do thin…

I’m a constant “I’m gonna quit this shit and go farm alfalfa” comic. Not unique, but I grew up in the trades working with family. The biggest thing that jumps out to me about programming vs my father’s work is the agency. He goes into a home, diagnoses, and fixes an issue. No MBA / PM / Scrum Bags to needlessly insert themselves into a process and cause issues. Contrasted with most jobs where I get delivered a small…

You can get more of the agency you describe as an independent contractor working on smaller projects, or in early stage startups. There's nobody breathing over your shoulder, just a "give me an estimate, let me know when you think you can get it done" sorta deal. I do enjoy that work better, but it's not as consistent.

The scrum-driven, jira-driven "small chunk" style of development is kinda depressing to me. It wasn't always like this, and there's so many new folks in tech many don't remember it used to be different.

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#423

Post by wrp »

jedberg wrote: post #64

This last summer/fall really put things in perspective for me. We did a major outdoor renovation at our house, which involved landscapers, plumbers, electricians, and carpenters. Every day these guys would show up at 8am and long sleeves and jeans and hard hats, work super hard, pee in a port-a-potty, and be exhausted by the end of the day. They worked out in the 100 degree heat as well as the rain as the job got nea…

Adding my own anecdote. Many years ago, I knew a scientist who complained constantly about the pressures of his job. He was a hobbyist carpenter and dreamed about doing that for a living. When he bought a house and hired a contractor to remodel it, he took a few months leave to join the construction crew. After he came back, he never complained about his job again.

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#424

Post by ddingus »

nkozyra wrote: post #166
jedberg wrote: post #64

This last summer/fall really put things in perspective for me. We did a major outdoor renovation at our house, which involved landscapers, plumbers, electricians, and carpenters. Every day these guys would show up at 8am and long sleeves and jeans and hard hats, work super hard, pee in a port-a-potty, and be exhausted by the end of the day. They worked out in the 100 degree heat as well as the rain as the job got nea…

There's something so insidiously, backhandedly condescending about tech workers pining for the simplicity of an honest day's job that drives me nuts. Yes, there are almost always jobs with less strenuous requirements on time, fewer requirements and late nights. But the average tech worker has a pretty good gig. And if they don't they can go down the street in 2022 and get one. Trades scratch a similar itch to develop…

I would not call it condescending.

Frankly, I hold a few roles and have for years. Some of those involve flat out making stuff, wielding tools, taking a shower at the end of the day type stuff. Others are business, development, some engineering electronics, software.

For me, the variety is good, and it reflects how I came up in rural America, where basically you learned how to fix your own car, help on the farm, do what it takes because few had the money to spend to solve problems. And no judgement on those who have that. I have that today. It's just that I didn't then, and the skills came along with the scene.

I'm writing this because there are plenty of times where I look for something I'm not currently doing, or involved with. The reasons vary too:

Less stress

More structure

Right now: less liability / risk though I expect a reward for that happening

More people

Less people

No people.

Any of us, whether we are in construction, software, electronics, plumbing, mechanics, all reach a point where we can nail it. If we are lucky, we are exposed to a few different disciplines and can reach that point a few times in our lives.

If anything, I would call said "pining" boredom, or seeking perspective of some kind, just a change up, if nothing else.

Personally, I feel that is OK, and encourage it in my peers, help them where I can.

Stretch a little. Feels good sometimes. Sometimes it's regrettable too.

You are better for having done it though.

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#425

Post by nkozyra »

digitaltrees wrote: post #347
nkozyra wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's something so insidiously, backhandedly condescending about tech workers pining for the simplicity of an honest day's job that drives me nuts. Yes, there are almost always jobs with less strenuous requirements on time, fewer requirements and late nights. But the average tech worker has a pretty good gig. And if they don't they can go down the street in 2022 and get one. Trades scratch a similar itch to develop…

It’s only condescending, because you’re assuming a social hierarchy where software development is more prestigious or desirable than one of the trades and that physical labor is harder than non-physical labor. The implication then is that a software developer wishing to become a plumber is ungrateful for their “better” job and naive for wanting a “harder” and “worse” job mistakingly believing it to be easier. Would y…

> It’s only condescending, because you’re assuming a social hierarchy where software development is more prestigious or desirable than one of the trades and that physical labor is harder than non-physical labor.

I'm very confused by this because I'm arguing the exact opposite: that people in tech romanticize these "simple" trades of the people.

> Would you call out a plumber for being condescending in wishing for the “easy” job of a software developer?

Absolutely. If they treated it like something you can just step down into without putting in the work, which is precisely how it's positioned when devs daydream about it.

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#426

Post by Vanderson »

waynesonfire wrote: post #9
Vanderson wrote: post #4

Yes, I have planned to become a carpenter or some other profession many times. But, I have been blessed/lucky to be a one man show for many years and I had to stick with one tech stack and my learning only added not shifted out from under me. So when I made massive changes it was on my own terms. The cost is mentally going against the trends/grain in the industry. My LAMP stack is now back in style, and I am grateful…

that is awesome. These are the types of dividends that I strive for. Well done.

Thank you. It was really hard to deal with when all the new code stuff was Node based. But since I stuck with a principle to keep things as simple as possible and this balanced my concerns some.

Results are what mattered and I think we've seen massive shifts in perspective in our industry over the past 20 years. Changing everything from code versioning systems, databases, back and front end languages, all the mix of build systems. There was a lot to avoid changing to for the sake of change.

And sometimes you wonder if you are missing something because you can't see the value in changing. (ie, GIT was obvious from SVN, PHP to Node not so obvious...)

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#427

Post by dukeofdoom »

jedberg wrote: post #64

This last summer/fall really put things in perspective for me. We did a major outdoor renovation at our house, which involved landscapers, plumbers, electricians, and carpenters. Every day these guys would show up at 8am and long sleeves and jeans and hard hats, work super hard, pee in a port-a-potty, and be exhausted by the end of the day. They worked out in the 100 degree heat as well as the rain as the job got nea…

This almost reads like a psyop piece to keep tech workers from rebelling.

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#428

Post by dukeofdoom »

The biggest factor for me personally was that I could not remember what I did a few days ago. I would come to into the office and start working on the current problem, and the day just went by. It was like 8 hours just disappeared into the ether. Day after day. Nothing memorable about them.

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#429

Post by banana_maker »

pessimizer wrote: post #270
banana_maker wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You and the other commenter have got to be joking. My point was that office-work is far away preferable to daily physical labor. I’ll take sitting over throwing out my back, blowing out my knees and having constant pain. Not to mention the hazards of working with chemicals or industrial equipment or electricity, and so on. Of course there are options that I use like exercising and standing desks. My point was that th…

> My point was that office-work is far away preferable to daily physical labor. It's not. I've never been fitter than when I was doing physical work. The problem was the pay and the powerlessness at the workplace (e.g. awful hours with no notice, management compromises on safety, the expectation that you'll keep silent when management cuts corners or cheats the clients/customers, etc.) The reason I stopped doing phys…

It is better. All humans have to sit or stand regardless. I exercise at my discretion instead of having to do difficult labor in order to get paid.

You're describing social/interpersonal problems which happen regardless of the type of industry or work. That has nothing to do with the objective fact that working in an office is better than having physical labor take a toll on your body in the long term. I never stated that doing nothing but sitting is healthy.

Re: Anyone else feel the constant urge to leave the field and become a plumber?

#430

Post by sasawpg »

nkozyra wrote: post #425
digitaltrees wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s only condescending, because you’re assuming a social hierarchy where software development is more prestigious or desirable than one of the trades and that physical labor is harder than non-physical labor. The implication then is that a software developer wishing to become a plumber is ungrateful for their “better” job and naive for wanting a “harder” and “worse” job mistakingly believing it to be easier. Would y…

> It’s only condescending, because you’re assuming a social hierarchy where software development is more prestigious or desirable than one of the trades and that physical labor is harder than non-physical labor. I'm very confused by this because I'm arguing the exact opposite: that people in tech romanticize these "simple" trades of the people. > Would you call out a plumber for being condescending in wishing for the…

> I'm very confused by this because I'm arguing the exact opposite: that people in tech romanticize these "simple" trades of the people.

I live in a climate where normal (I.e. not extreme) temp fluctuates between -25C and +30C. You can add 5-10C to either end for the above/below average days. There is absolutely nothing romantic or glamorous about working outside in those temps. This “romanticism” you speak of, while very real, often comes from a place of ignorance and inexperience. I’ve done enough physical labour in my time in reasonable weather than I see no reason for me ever want to make a career out of it. Similar goes for interior work, I’ve done the “good” and “mediocre” jobs as DIY enough to know I would not want to do it for a living.

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