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Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

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Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#211

Post by gaganyaan »

ahh wrote: post #205
gaganyaan wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a secret, it's common sense: > Norway has one of the lowest recidivism rates in the world; in 2016, only 20% of inmates re-offended within 5 years. [...] Norway's prisons are renowned for being some of the best and most humane in the world. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_Norway Treat people like people, it's that simple. Attitudes like ahh's arise from not expanding past using their lizard…

You are welcome to advocate for pleasant, humane prisons. Run whatever antirecidivism campaigns you wish there. If they work, that's great. In either case: send people who commit crime to those prisons. If they do it again, send them back.

This isn't some theoretical thing. Countries with sane laws around this see far lower recidivism rates, today.

The proof is in the pudding, and your pudding is rotten. Give it some actual thought.

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#212

Post by e4e78a06 »

notthemessiah wrote: post #76
e4e78a06 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're both problems that can be attacked independently. You can crack down hard on shoplifters and reselling rings but also build lots of new housing. Price of rent is a function of housing supply and demand. Rent control just pushes the costs to less visible things like security deposit, maintenance, etc.

They're more interconnected than at first glace. When ambitious people can't be stakeholders in the economy due to NIMBY gatekeepers, they resort to less socially-acceptable means of getting ahead and making it big. I don't think "reselling rings" are that easy to crack down on, they probably are not rings at all rely on apps and services and operate on a more individual basis. The very framing of such is just used t…

> When ambitious people can't be stakeholders in the economy due to NIMBY gatekeepers, they resort to less socially-acceptable means of getting ahead and making it big

I don't ever remember thinking of drug dealers at any school I went to as "ambitious". Some drug _users_, yes, but they never stole stuff to fund their drug habit. It was more like recreational, responsible alcohol for them. And now that we all have careers it's pretty clear who was actually ambitious and who wasted their parents' money.

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#215

Post by josephcsible »

tomlockwood wrote: post #177
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be both/and, rather than either/or. We can try to fix a decaying society, and not let criminals run wild in the meantime.

Ok, but characterizing criminals as "running wild" in the country with literally the most criminals behind bars, seems odd!

Not every country has the same number of criminals total. Just because we have the most behind bars doesn't mean that we don't also have the most running wild.

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#216

Post by tomlockwood »

josephcsible wrote: post #208
tomlockwood wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Awesome, we should send the shoplifting rate to zero, by imprisoning, everyone!

I'm not saying to imprison everyone, obviously. I'm saying to imprison everyone who steals .

And my argument is against turning the dial up on punishment as a result of people in prison not being able to steal. The logic you've put forward, at the very least, suggests that people who steal should therefore have life sentences, and that already sounds a little absurd. If we should imprison people more, to prevent crime, why not you and me? I assume we've both jaywalked.

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#217

Post by tomlockwood »

josephcsible wrote: post #215
tomlockwood wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but characterizing criminals as "running wild" in the country with literally the most criminals behind bars, seems odd!

Not every country has the same number of criminals total. Just because we have the most behind bars doesn't mean that we don't also have the most running wild.

And why does America produce more criminals? Can we address the root cause rather than the symptom?

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#218

Post by AnimalMuppet »

tomlockwood wrote: post #217
josephcsible wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not every country has the same number of criminals total. Just because we have the most behind bars doesn't mean that we don't also have the most running wild.

And why does America produce more criminals? Can we address the root cause rather than the symptom?

Once again: Let's address the root cause and the symptom. Not rather than. Both/and.

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#219

Post by tomlockwood »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #218
tomlockwood wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And why does America produce more criminals? Can we address the root cause rather than the symptom?

Once again: Let's address the root cause and the symptom. Not rather than. Both/and.

But it'd appear that addressing the symptom by turning up the amount of incarceration, has not worked, since America has the most in the world.
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