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Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

nature.com

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Re: Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

#211

Post by verisimi »

dijit wrote: post #150
uptownfunk wrote: post #106

This comment will probably get flagged, but I am genuinely curious from a scientific lens. What is the distribution of post-COVID heart disease conditional on having taken the vaccine?

This is actually the best reason to have people remain unvaccinated, and to not strictly mandate vaccines. I'm pro-vax (god, why do I have to say that?) but what's seriously pissed me off about this whole COVID thing is how quickly it became political. At the beginning there was a real sense of "we're in this together" but now you can be pretty certain of someones political affiliation if they choose not to wear a ma…

Regardless of your position - pro-vax - I love that you point out the political elements to this.

The politics goes deeper: the definitions of the terms 'vaccine' and 'virus' were changed, governments have undertaken the biggest advertising campaign in history effectively bankrolling the media, people who died of unrelated causes but had a positive test were counted as covid deaths which plainly skews statistics, governmental psychological units were given a few rein, large corporations were allowed to remain open but small businesses were not, etc.

These are examples of how this was handled not in a neutral way, but to advance a political agenda. Especially when you consider that most western countries were implementing the same measures in a coordinated way.

Re: Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

#212

Post by qbasic_forever »

NullInvictus wrote: post #192

Every COVID story here is an interesting little glimpse into how a seemingly normal forum has their latent political views exploited into adopting a conspiracy theory, re: anti-vaccine rhetoric. It becomes a little more extreme every day. This study has nothing to do with the vaccine, and yet this is what HN clamors for. I wonder how many people here understand what kind of ride they're being taken for.

I sometimes wonder if a mild COVID infection could also cause behavioral and psychological changes like more aggression, risk taking, depression, or even schizophrenia and could it be driving some of the conspiracies? If you think about it any kind of behavior change that avoids vaccination, masking, or other precautions would be selective pressure on the virus to further evolve in that direction.

How would you even begin to understand and deal with this kind of situation on a massive, global scale... it's an interesting problem.

Makes you think about the sudden and almost unexplainable push from aggressive, vocal experts to have the public unmask and drop all COVID mitigations immediately after the latest surge too...

Re: Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

#214

Post by YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo »

adflux wrote: post #204
YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This, and I don't understand why there isn't more scrutiny from the moderators. Especially the one-day old accounts are the most annoying part. If you have hottakes at least have the curtousy to do it with your primary account so we know who to ignore afterwards.

Quoted post unavailable.

There are enough idiots like you in this threads that spread lies or comment stupid shit like "If YoUr OpInIoN iS dIfFerEnT fRoM mInE, i WiLl IgNoRe YoU" that I don't want myself to be associated with them or you so you are absolutely right. You are ignored.

Re: Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

#215

Post by verisimi »

wyattpeak wrote: post #202
verisimi wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Why would you expect it to be similar to the flu? Covid is entirely unrelated to the flu. SARS killed fifteen percent of people who got it. Was that due to treatment, since the flu doesn't do that?

It's worth considering that the treatment could also be the cause of the blood clotting though. Do you agree?

Re: Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

#216

Post by null_object »

laurent92 wrote: post #98
kodah wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had Delta once. Prior to it I would ride 30 miles on my bike like it was a breezy day. When I'd take breaks to vacation or whatever I could pick back up easily. A year after COVID, I'm struggling to hit 20 miles and I lose my progress easily. I'm not sure it's COVID related, but nothing else has changed in my life.

Lockdowns have also broken everyone’s regular exercise and healthy habits. On charts we all assign this to Covid, but lockdowns were an artificial, additional decision.

> Lockdowns have also broken everyone’s regular exercise and healthy habits.

Why do you make assumptions about "everyone"? I'm sure there are as many diverse experiences during 'lockdowns' as there are people who experienced them. Obviously if you include the rare cases where people were actually kept indoors (how long did those actually last?), then healthy exercise might have been more difficult.

In my case, my health has improved immeasurably, as I no longer need to sit in an office all day, eat an unhealthy lunch and eat office-supplied snacks the way I did before.

I eat more healthily, get more fresh air, walk and cycle at lunchtimes - and even get more work done in fewer hours.

Re: Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

#217

Post by ummonk »

verisimi wrote: post #188
EnKopVand wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m Danish, like everyone of my fellows I had my 3 shots and a case of Omniwhatever. I’m 39 and in relatively decent shape, I can run 5km in 25 minutes and I do 20-30 minute of semi-cardio every day as I walk an 3km steep incline going home from work. Post covid (two months now) I feel the burn so much faster. Completely anecdotal but it had my doctor worried enough that she send me to an EKG and for blood testing (w…

Quoted post unavailable.

While this was a case of omicron (which is more flu-like in terms of which parts of the human body it targets), pre-omicron variants of Covid were certainly very different from the flu, and in particular more likely to target the nervous system.

And a lot of respiratory viruses (both flu and other influenza-like viruses) do cause major effects on the human body sometimes. E.g. when I got hit with the flu in 2009 (might have been H1N1), it took me months my lungs to get back to normal.

As to treatment, most people who get Covid don't receive any treatment.

Re: Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

#218

Post by dijit »

kkjjkgjjgg wrote: post #137
dijit wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think on a macro scale you're right, attitudes and disciplines are also somewhat to blame. Sweden, though, did not lock down, and I hear (and experience) the same issue as the parent. The first day back after COVID and I reached my max heart rate in 60s of moderate jogging.

Not sure it is accurate to say Sweden did not lock down. Afaik they had some measures in place, and were counting on people to behave sensibly in other aspects. So even though there were perhaps less lockdown rules, most people might still have adjusted their behavior.

As mentioned I think this really only applies on a macro scale.

Individual anecdotes (such as my personal friends who did not change behaviour), while unscientific, paint a similar picture to what is being presented as evidence, so it's an additional data point to consider.

So, at least there is some correlation with the sentiment, and by people whom I know have not adjusted their behaviour. (including myself)

Sweden's restrictions were excessively light, by the way, 8pm closing of restaurants and gyms is not exactly a big deal to people going to the gym after work.

Re: Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

#219

Post by jonathanstrange »

tux1968 wrote: post #35
abc_lisper wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One has to be incredibly lucky to not get Covid at some point, now that it has become endemic.

That's the point. You're still going to get Covid, so the question is, does having the vaccine reduce the prevalence of myocarditis in Covid patients? If it's the same as in the unvaccinated population, then (ignoring other actual benefits for a moment) taking the vaccine may actually increase your risk of myocarditis, since there is the risk with the vaccine itself, plus the risk once you get Covid.

It makes no sense to only look at the risk of myocarditis. What you really want to know is how likely people in your age group and with similar predispositions are going to have serious health problems or die (i) if they are vaccinated and boostered and are exposed to SARS-CoV-2 and (ii) if they are not vaccinated and are exposed to SARRS-CoV-2. The tricky part is the "exposed to" - if you interpret this as a symptomatic breakthrough infection, then you'll bias the study a little bit against vaccination because it seems likely that fully vaccinated people who get breakthrough cases of Covid have previously undiscovered health deficiencies in contrast to those who are vaccinated, exposed to the virus and do not show any symptoms. (I'm talking about a statistical tendency, of course, not all of those people.)

So in the end the most interesting data is still how many vaccinated get serious health problems or die versus how many unvaccinated get serious health problems or die in a time and place where both groups are likely to be exposed to the virus. If the group is large enough and randomly selected, then this should be fairly indicative. Of course, the meaning of "serious" needs to be defined and quantified.

AFAIK, myocarditis can be treated very well when its diagnosed, that alone makes the focus on it strange. Maybe the lesson to draw from the debate is that patients should be informed better so they can identify symptoms of myocarditis and seek medical help early. Just an idea...

Re: Heart-disease risk soars after Covid, even with a mild case

#220

Post by nodamage »

It is important to note that given the timeline in the study (March 2020 to Jan 2021) most of the COVID-19 group was likely unvaccinated. It remains to be seen whether vaccination protects against these same risks.

Edit: This is confirmed in the supplementary data. Only 347 (0.23%) of the 162,690 people in the COVID-19 group were vaccinated prior to infection. That being said, a reasonably large percentage (61.93%) were vaccinated by the end of the follow up period, which would seemingly indicate that vaccination post-infection doesn't help all that much against these risks.

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