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The data are clear: The boys are not all right

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Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#931

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like an easy thing to test, just adjust for income in single parents and compare outcomes. Easy enough that it's likely been done before and didn't materially change the outcomes of this kind of analysis

> this kind of analysis This was an op-ed by a politician, not any kind of analysis.

There are countless studies showing the benefits of dual parent households which is what you were referencing...

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#932

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The "Girls Who Code" program was created because of the discrimination and bias women face in the tech industry (not to mention other workplaces and areas of life). Also, the existence of woman managers doesn't suddenly mean that sexism doesn't exist in the industry. I'd imagine that many woman managers have faced a lot of prejudice throughout their careers. And there's probably a large amount of women who want to ge…

Your comment does totally make sense. But I also wonder, would a "Men's Teachers Club" for example have the same level of acceptance?

Men's teacher support groups exist. Men's nursing support groups exist. Men's breast cancer support groups exist. Men's support groups in general exist. If you find a place in society where men are underrepresented, there is probably a support group for men in that space.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#933

US-based cis-hetero white man here. The data reinforce the impression you get glancing at the headlines or spending a day out anywhere in America observing other men. Dare I say it even reinforces what I know from painful firsthand experience as a man, at the lowest points in my life. I was lucky though, with a supportive family who helped me through the confusing years of early adulthood. You can point to the declin…

>Whatever the cause I fully reject the lazy conclusion this is somehow women's fault. What a jarring non-sequitur. The article doesn't mention anything about women being to blame, and I don't think anyone is raising this as the cause.

That part was in response to some of the other comments here

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#934
post #789

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I think cultural legacy is more deeply intertwined with morals than people appreciate. It’s just hard to see it because you’re surrounded by it. It’s easier to notice when you compare between countries and across religious traditions. My dad was raised very religious (Muslim) in Bangladesh. His grandfather was an imam. He is non-religious and I grew up non-religious, but I joined a Christian church after I got marrie…

> Consider, for example, the obsession in Christian countries with equality. They almost fall over themselves to welcome people from different ethnic backgrounds. I suspect this has something to do with Christianity’s origins as a Jewish religion adopted by the Gentiles My experiences are almost the complete opposite to yours, I suspect there are major differences between congregations that can't be applied to the na…

Without trying to detract from your experience, I would suggest that your experience as a Black person in Bangladesh, India, or China would have been a whole lot worse. Heck, even though most Muslims aren’t Arab, it’s pretty darn clear that the Arabs think that is south Asians are second class citizens in the Muslim world. And unlike white southerners they’re not passive aggressive about it.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#935
post #242

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Schools are structured to benefit girls, and the deck is absolutely stacked against boys. The vast majority of teachers are female, and they mark boys worse for equivalent work. [1] Boys generally require more physical activity than girls, yet the majority of school is "sit down and stare at this whiteboard". Of course they're less motivated, it's quite literally a rigged game. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/education-…

I think you're oversimplifying what is a massive systemic issue into two points that, while true, might not contribute as large of an impact as you're assuming. Also, just in defence of female teachers, I don't think it matters so much that they're women, but that they understand that boys will be boys. Anti-male teachers were, at least in the experience of myself and a friend who went to a different school (we discu…

Why do you think your anecdotes trump an international study on the matter?

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#936

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> The selection process is on Tinder, not the maternity ward, and the bar is brutally high there for men. I’ve been seeing this exact trope repeated more and more on HN lately: Some vague assertion that Tinder is the only place for matchmaking and that only a tiny number of men are getting all of the matches. It’s an objectively ridiculous claim for anyone who has experience in the real world where, yes, even “normal…

>So what is actually going on here? It actually matches the real data and studies which have been done on the topic. When men ranked photos of women on a scale of 1-10, the majority of woman were ranked in the 5 category which would indicate the average person is seen as average. While when woman ranked photos of men, the majority of men were ranked bellow 5. The data that has come out of online dating is pretty damn…

The real world isn't carefully structured studies with arbitrary rating scales, though. People match with each other and settle down.

If you want a scientific explanation, look up "Assortative mating": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assortative_mating

The idea that only the most attractive people are entering relationships with each other while everyone else, regardless of gender, is staying single is ridiculous.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#937
post #184

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I have two elementary-aged children, a boy and a girl. They fit the pattern you describe to a T, and I think most teachers' experience would agree. So anecdotally, the theory that (in general) boys need more nudging than girls from someone in their life in order to be successful rings true. But what would account for a modern change? Are there fewer people pushing, now? Are boys more resistant to it now, or maybe mor…

Because recent technical change heavily favors book learning over hands-on skills, which are more compelling to males.

Although your reply is buried beneath a lot other comments, I do think you are right on this! People that prefer book learning and listening (passively) to a teacher have an advantage with the current teaching methodologies than people that prefer hands-on learning..

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#938
post #712

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think cultural legacy is more deeply intertwined with morals than people appreciate. It’s just hard to see it because you’re surrounded by it. It’s easier to notice when you compare between countries and across religious traditions. My dad was raised very religious (Muslim) in Bangladesh. His grandfather was an imam. He is non-religious and I grew up non-religious, but I joined a Christian church after I got marrie…

> I mean, how many societies have a religion centered around some other ethnic group? Plenty. Southeast Asia has religions centered around Indian or Arab religions. Same for Iran and much of Central Asia with Islam. All these places have adapted the other ethnicity's belief system to their own culture. It's no different for Christianity. Bertrand Russell described it as the combination of Greek philosophy with Jewish…

For an intriguing spin on this, look into Manichaeism, a 3rd-century religion from modern Iran which syncretizes Zoroastrianism, Christianity, and Buddhism, and survived until the middle of the last millennium in China.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#939

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does HN have the weirdest pseudo-incel takes masquerading as genuine science or something? I don't think any of this is true.

Poe's law, sorry. (Although some truth snuck in with the parenthetical about not asking.) The arrest warrants were supposed to give away the joke... If you're wondering why people see it that way, just imagine a world where a large number of people had undiagnosed social anxiety, and another large group of people had undiagnosed sociopathy, and they both got pushed out of normal society into the same place. Then the…

Oops, missed the first sentence. Are you referring to the virgin/chad meme?

I think you're probably right with your second paragraph.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#940

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are generalizing your stable situation and values far too much. The population stats are something like 60% of men will be fathers but 90-95% of women will be mothers. Most women who can reproduce will but a huge percent of men who can will not. 40% of births are outside of marriage in the US. I would think the only real generalization that can be made is that an introverted guy with money is more likely to get m…

Not sure what stats you're looking at. In the US it's about 80% of women [1] and 60% of men [2]. More interesting to me is the overall downward trend in fertility rates. [1] https://ifstudies.org/blog/the-rise-of-childless-america [2] https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2019/mens-fer...

You guys are mixing up numbers. 80% of women have a child at some point in their lives, and 60% of men age 15+ currently are fathers. A lot of those 40% who are currently not fathers yet will become fathers at some point in their lives.
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