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Every employee who leaves Apple becomes an ‘associate’

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Every employee who leaves Apple becomes an ‘associate’

#81

Post by wpietri »

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #36
tablespoon wrote: post #3

> Apple offers a phone number employers can call to verify titles of former Apple employees. A voice recording on that line directs callers to the web site for InVerify, an employment verification service provider owned by credit agency Equifax. When The Washington Post called InVerify’s customer support number, a customer service representative said Apple is the only company he knew of that changes job titles of emp…

Leaving a cult is the ultimate sin in most cults, so it is not surprising at all. Any Apple employees reading this that want out, here’s a guide for help. https://www.wikihow.com/Leave-a-Cult

Wow. I have read a bunch of cult-escapee biographies, as the cult dynamic fascinated me. All of them had an extreme narcissist at the center.

Somehow I had never connected that with the famous tech company with an extreme narcissist at the center. But you're right, that pattern of retaliation against people who dare to leave fits perfectly here.

Re: Every employee who leaves Apple becomes an ‘associate’

#82

Post by jsjohnst »

PedroBatista wrote: post #78
jsjohnst wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The "monetize everything to the max" policy of encouraging developers to test their new pre-release M1 chip + OS and software for $500 and then after they return their DTK they offered a $200 store credit. Ignoring the fact you completely missed the point of the DTK, this is factually wrong. The store credit was $500.

No, I'm quite right. It was "upgraded" to $500 after much uproar.

I just checked my emails and it was always $500 credit offered after returning for me, so maybe some DTK folks were offered $200? Either way, it ultimately was $500 however by your own admission, even if initially stated to some as $200.

Re: Every employee who leaves Apple becomes an ‘associate’

#83

Post by sennight »

axg11 wrote: post #44
manuelabeledo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Title is nothing subjective. In fact, titles and levels can be matched between two companies easily. Anyway, this is not what Apple is doing. They are downgrading everyone by default, which is akin to providing false information about a former employee.

> Title is nothing subjective. In fact, titles and levels can be matched between two companies easily. There is zero truth to this statement. Perhaps job families can be matched (engineering vs sales, manager vs IC). Other than that, it’s impossible to equate. I’ve seen a VP of Engineering at a startup start as a junior engineer at a FAANG.

> Other than that, it’s impossible to equate.

Well if you totally ignore the concept of scale, sure. It sounds like your "VP of Engineering" at a startup was actually a junior engineer not doing anything you'd expect a VP to really do... like manage a complex hierarchy of departments, managers, and special projects.

Re: Every employee who leaves Apple becomes an ‘associate’

#84

Post by ant6n »

adrusi wrote: post #79
BoiledCabbage wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's clearly not. It's very clearly implying they had a job with the title "associate".

No it doesn't. It clearly could mean that, but it literally just means the person has associated with the company. I don't know why they'd use language that could create that confusion, but it's not straightforward dishonesty.

It could mean that, but not clearly, and it really doesn't mean that.

Re: Every employee who leaves Apple becomes an ‘associate’

#85

Post by redler »

dsr_ wrote: post #50
hammock wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Apple does not have to share their database with these third party companies, but not only do they choose to do so they also make sure the information is wrong. Apple is, essentially, being unethical on two levels By giving out wrong personal information, the argument could be made that they are protecting privacy. I do not believe saying "associate" is wrong, though. It's a term that is commonly used by HR to refer…

If they wanted to protect privacy, they would only have two responses: "We confirm that this person worked for Apple, ending on [date]. By policy, we don't discuss any further details." "We do not have records that this person worked for Apple."

Since it will be widely known among peer organizations that Apple has this policy, the presence or absence of the "Associate" title achieves this, in effect, does it not? I think it's unlikely someone seeking a 600K job will be mistaken for having been a retail employee.

Re: Every employee who leaves Apple becomes an ‘associate’

#87

Post by BrandoElFollito »

vsskanth wrote: post #66

Something that's not mentioned here is this refusal to even confirm what you worked on also affects people's immigration status. To approve I-140, USCIS requires a signed letter from employers confirming your title, experience and skill sets. Most companies really don't like to give these details out for some reason, and it's always a struggle, especially outside tech. People manage by contacting their managers to pa…

In that case it is interesting that the law does not mandate this.

In France you get a paper with the name of the company and the dates of your employment. This is the only information a company can provide, and confirm when requested.

The concept of referrals does not exist in practical terms (I had to give some once for an American company and gave good friends who said I was wonderful) - because they would not work.

All this is closely regulated by law.

Re: Every employee who leaves Apple becomes an ‘associate’

#88

Post by rowanajmarshall »

bradly wrote: post #31
tablespoon wrote: post #3

> Apple offers a phone number employers can call to verify titles of former Apple employees. A voice recording on that line directs callers to the web site for InVerify, an employment verification service provider owned by credit agency Equifax. When The Washington Post called InVerify’s customer support number, a customer service representative said Apple is the only company he knew of that changes job titles of emp…

I worked at Apple and I’m okay they do this. My role is my information to share. I don’t need that sitting in some database in perpetuity.

But if someone wants to verify your role (which sounds reasonable), contacts Apple and they say you were an associate while you said you were a senior, that's gonna cause problems. And apparently is.

Re: Every employee who leaves Apple becomes an ‘associate’

#89

Post by Spoom »

sprayk wrote: post #69

(Just to throat clear ahead of time... I obviously find what Apple is doing super shitty. I just want to find some reason besides "Apple bad" for why they would do this.) Could they be doing this title change, at least in theory, as an information security measure? Competitors and journalists could potentially corroborate (or have an easier time corroborating) leaks if they can verify that a former employee is the po…

This was my first thought. Apple is notoriously secretive, even internally. They likely see this as a way to prevent folks from reverse engineering through job titles what former employees were working on. (Agreed that it's super shitty and likely overkill, but I think this is a better explanation than outright trying to screw former employees.)

In this case, though, why not replace the job title with "Employee"?

Re: Every employee who leaves Apple becomes an ‘associate’

#90

Post by PedroBatista »

jsjohnst wrote: post #82
PedroBatista wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I'm quite right. It was "upgraded" to $500 after much uproar.

I just checked my emails and it was always $500 credit offered after returning for me, so maybe some DTK folks were offered $200? Either way, it ultimately was $500 however by your own admission, even if initially stated to some as $200.

Thanks again for participating in the Universal App Quick Start Program.

We heard your feedback regarding the 200 USD appreciation credit mentioned in our last email. Our intention was to recognize the tremendous effort that you have put into creating amazing universal apps. By partnering with us early, you showed your commitment to our platform and a willingness to be trailblazers.

So instead of the 200 USD credit that expires in May, we are giving you a 500 USD Apple credit and extending the time you can use it to get a new M1 Mac through the end of the year.

This is from a year ago, Feb 6th 2021

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