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The data are clear: The boys are not all right

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Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that 'cultural legacy' is completely different from 'organized religion'. Celebrating 'Christmas' as a family get-together is completely different from celebrating the arrival of the messiah and deriving your complete moral compass from that.

I think cultural legacy is more deeply intertwined with morals than people appreciate. It’s just hard to see it because you’re surrounded by it. It’s easier to notice when you compare between countries and across religious traditions. My dad was raised very religious (Muslim) in Bangladesh. His grandfather was an imam. He is non-religious and I grew up non-religious, but I joined a Christian church after I got marrie…

Question. How would you suggest I square your claims about Arab society with the observed fact that every year thousands of girls die in Arab countries from honor killings. And the fact that, as https://www.statista.com/statistics/1019538/mena-arab-respon... shows, in many of these countries, significant minorities think that such killings are justified.

Killing your own child suggests to me that kinship means rather less than it does in Western cultures.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#703

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder if the WaPo would be interested in publishing any critiques of social media effects on children, given their ties to Big Tech... Let's see... "New report: Most teens say social media makes them feel better, not worse, about themselves (2018)" Oh come on. You're either being misleading, or have been mislead. What you wrote doesn't make any sense: 1. Why would the existence of an example of one type of artic…

> As far as I can tell, you just made that up. Literally no Google hits NAFTA was passed in the very early days of the internet. Here's a great quote about it from former presidential candidate Ross Perot via wikipedia: "We have got to stop sending jobs overseas. It's pretty simple: If you're paying $12, $13, $14 an hour for factory workers and you can move your factory south of the border, pay a dollar an hour for l…

>>> Corporate media claims... remember this one? "NAFTA and China WTO will raise the standard of living for all Americans!"

>> As far as I can tell, you just made that up. Literally no Google hits

> NAFTA was passed in the very early days of the internet. Here's a great quote about it from former presidential candidate Ross Perot via wikipedia:

I'm well aware. What I meant was the headline he "quoted" was almost certainly made up (I mean "NAFTA and China WTO"? There was a bit of a time gap between those things). Obviously there were advocates who made grand predictions in favor of free trade in general, and advocates who said that was all BS (and for the record the latter have been proven to be far more correct). The issue I have is with the sloppy thinking and sloppy argumentation in the GGP.

A lot of people seem to lazily think of the media as a unitary agent, and think that agent's intentions are revieled in some random cherrypicked op-eds they read sometime that pissed them off. That's almost as big of a pet peeve of mine as libertarianism.

That's not to say it can't be taken by a zeitgeist or its participants don't show bias, but it's kind of an important thing that ought to be thought about more carefully and less conspiratorially.

> Selling out our capacity to manufacture our own goods has been a terrible choice for Americans. We can't make the things our civilization needs to function. We have hollowed out entire metro areas and replaced steady paychecks and fairly cohesive social units with "gig" work and broken families.

No disagreement there.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#704
post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A note on fitness. Any pressure I've had to lose weight or whatnot has come from me . All female partners have said that they don't care about my weight, and some actually like some belly to rest on. That said, they have commented favourably on other physical features, and I'm not particularly overweight. I say all this just to try and fight the idea that crops up that if you're male and don't fit some jacked or "Cha…

Height is way more important than fitness to women.

Well my 193 centimetres hasn't done me much good ;)

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#706

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We are in 2022 and a nice, wealthy and rational guy won't commit to someone without a career and finances in order. This is more often false than true. I know many men who have or are marrying women who make 1/2 or less what they do. Nice, wealthy, and rational folks. They however need a woman. And there is a strong lack of women who are anywhere near where many men are in compensation and wealth. I am example of t…

Again - unpopular opinion - but I've noticed men tend think of a potential wife's wealth or earning potential much less than vice a versa. Even when choosing a career, men seem to place a lot of importance on compensation, while women seem to place just as much, if not more, importance on other non-financial factors too. I am also an example. I make much more than my wife, and it made zero impact on my decision to da…

> Again - unpopular opinion - but I've noticed men tend think of a potential wife's wealth or earning potential much less than vice a versa.

My personal experience and from what I've learned from other men: It's because most men know they won't receive a dime from their partner. It starts with how a man almost always pays for the dates or at best they split it. (Or they have a rule like - "whoever asks X out has to pay" which is of course always the man because almost no women ask any men out) Similarly - the wife is usually the SAHP not because the man doesn't ever want to do it (I know many men who'd love to be a SAHP!) but because financially it makes little to no sense. As a man - you could try to choose a woman who makes more but that's very hard. Most women don't want to be the bread winner - why do it when they've never been the one to do it anyway? There's a level of entitlement that comes with carrying children to term as well - there's an idea that they should get to spend time with their children at home for as long as they want before they have to go back to work. (A weird mentality of, "It's work that deserves to be compensated but I also really want to do this and would do it even if I wasn't compensated and definitely don't wanna go back to work!") When it makes more financial sense - I see the men be SAHP but I've only ever met one guy in that position. One! And it's because he's broke AF and his wife makes way more money. They are the one couple I know who go against the grain on these gender roles and they're both incredibly liberal leaning people.

When I think back on my own experience and that of the many men I've listened to... The gifts men received, the treats, the support, etc. it's always much less than what the men were putting out. Most men know they won't receive anything from a woman even if she has the ability to. There is a certain level of entitlement and certain patriarchal values that many women have not given up and refuse to give up for the foreseeable future. One is giving up the notion that the man provides the majority or all of the financial support. There's also a nature of feeling like a woman needs to be financially spoiled in order to feel "supported"/"loved". I don't know if this is due to consumerism but it feels closer to gender roles than that.

I don't think any of this stuff is ingrained. I think it's cultural. Again - why I said I don't see this changing for generations. If people are still so adamantly doing this now and it feels like many are even more ingrained now with it - there's no hope for the next 50 years. I think people will dig in more and more men will go without reproducing.

> In general I rarely see couples where the wife earns significantly more than the husband. Generally the husband makes more, they both make about even, or the wife might make slightly more.

It's hard to say if that's because the men chose that or if the woman chose that - but I know many women who outright declare they won't date anyone who makes less than they do and many are hesitant to date anyone who makes even the same. I know many of these women - almost all of them are my friends. Only people I know who date someone who makes less than them are men. (Gay or straight)

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#707

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The selection process is on Tinder, not the maternity ward, and the bar is brutally high there for men.

Tinder isn't for relationships, it's a disgusting people market for hook ups. Every profile is basically an ad for a person. Online dating is toxic, most people I know that used it years ago are still there safe for few unicorns. How could it possibly be? Weren't they lookimg for someone? Maybe because it distorts relationships and people as commodities thus making meaningful relationships harder to initiate, maintai…

Damn near every profile I see says "not here for hookups, no FWB/casual" and people are almost so allergic to any form of flirtatiousness you practically need to keep it "business casual" or you get silence/unmatched. If you're over your mid 20's, you're not using it for hookups, at least in my (US) city.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The selection process is on Tinder, not the maternity ward, and the bar is brutally high there for men. I’ve been seeing this exact trope repeated more and more on HN lately: Some vague assertion that Tinder is the only place for matchmaking and that only a tiny number of men are getting all of the matches. It’s an objectively ridiculous claim for anyone who has experience in the real world where, yes, even “normal…

>So what is actually going on here? It actually matches the real data and studies which have been done on the topic. When men ranked photos of women on a scale of 1-10, the majority of woman were ranked in the 5 category which would indicate the average person is seen as average. While when woman ranked photos of men, the majority of men were ranked bellow 5. The data that has come out of online dating is pretty damn…

Link to the graphic I believe you're referencing: https://i.imgur.com/L9Vu4Zo.png

The original study was published on the OkCupid blog, but it was taken down after it caught on likely due to the obvious PR implications.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#710
post #161

Is there a generational thing that causes people to say "data is" vs. "data are" in this context? Because to me "data are" sounds so egregiously wrong it takes me seconds to focus on anything else.

It's descriptivism vs prescriptivism.

Prescriptivist "data" is plural because it comes from the cartographical term "datum". Descriptivists say it's singular because nobody in the 400 years has used the term in an information context while referring to the geodetic datum.

This is the equivalent of the Washington Post being snobby by saying that technically a tomato turns it into a fruit salad.

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