The data are clear: The boys are not all right • Hacker News Board

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#581

Post by PragmaticPulp » Thu, Feb 10, 2022, 1:25 AM UTC

symlinkk wrote: post #496

chrisseaton wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lot of men and women who are generally not too motivated to seek out a companion, lose weight, put in the work to make it happen I don't think you need these things to find a partner and have children. Just go to a maternity ward. It sounds like you think everyone there is highly motivated, physically fit, and dedicated to working on relationships. They aren't. They're just normal people with a range of human flaws…

The selection process is on Tinder, not the maternity ward, and the bar is brutally high there for men.

> The selection process is on Tinder, not the maternity ward, and the bar is brutally high there for men.

I’ve been seeing this exact trope repeated more and more on HN lately: Some vague assertion that Tinder is the only place for matchmaking and that only a tiny number of men are getting all of the matches.

It’s an objectively ridiculous claim for anyone who has experience in the real world where, yes, even “normal” men can find partners. It doesn’t even stand up to the most basic tests of logic.

Are only attractive people getting married and having kids? Of course not.

So what is actually going on here? Is this some talking point being repeated on some corner of the internet that resonates with a subset of people who view the world through their cell phones instead of getting out and interacting with real other people? It’s an objectively absurd assertion, yet it gets repeated with great confidence in a lot of online discussions.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#582

Post by rpmisms » Thu, Feb 10, 2022, 1:28 AM UTC

urthor wrote: post #304

justinpombrio wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been more women than men in college in the US since the 80s. It varies from college to college and from subject to subject (e.g. STEM is much more male, MIT more male, humanities-focused colleges more female). A graph from a random internet search result: https://educationalpolicy.org/hello-world/

There's a huge body of education research about this, this has been the case for of years. There's even data from the pre-1900s, especially in the primary school years. Only recently have we stripped away a lot of the sexism however, providing a successful transition to higher education. It all boils down to: Girls are more likely to do their damn homework when the teacher tells them. Therefore they out-perform in fo…

Yes, men typically have less agreeableness. It's borderline bigoted for the school system to favor typical female psychology so much.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#583

Post by guskel » Thu, Feb 10, 2022, 1:29 AM UTC

mrjangles wrote: post #474

awaythrow483 wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 33, Ive got a fairly high IQ, make $340k in a STEM field and enough to retire tomorrow, I'm not unattractive, and put a huge amount of effort over many years into online dating. I've pretty much given up on dating. I have a total inability to find anyone I'm interested in that is interested in me. When I was younger and I wanted to go to bars and get drunk and be an idiot I had plenty of attractive sexual partner…

>huge amount of effort over many years into online dating My god I hope you aren't talking about tinder are you? You are totally clueless about women and dating if that is what you are talking about. Go out to bars, talk to people, do activities and meet lots of people. stop doing 'online' dating (of any kind) Seriously, myself and everyone I know found that upon reaching 33 the interest from women in their 20s sky r…

I'm not sure if it's the cities I've been living in but bars seem to have relatively few women in them. Going to a bar in search of a partner almost seems not so different than swiping on Tinder.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#584

Post by grvdrm » Thu, Feb 10, 2022, 1:29 AM UTC

awaythrow483 wrote: post #359

paulpauper wrote: post #111

The crisis, if there is one, is that society has less use for males who have IQs between 90-105 or so, who cannot cut it in STEM, and who are finding it hard to cope with increasingly competitive economic conditions and higher overall costs like rent, and is why many men are delaying family formation or moving back with parents (but also due to careerism for women). Men are just dropping out rather than doing low-pai…

I'm 33, Ive got a fairly high IQ, make $340k in a STEM field and enough to retire tomorrow, I'm not unattractive, and put a huge amount of effort over many years into online dating. I've pretty much given up on dating. I have a total inability to find anyone I'm interested in that is interested in me. When I was younger and I wanted to go to bars and get drunk and be an idiot I had plenty of attractive sexual partner…

Something cliche but perhaps relevant:

Is it instead that some of these folks who have an "easy" time actually don't care that much about the process? Not ignorance, but not spending much time over-analyzing everything. Instead, they're out and they're drawing people to them because they're not thinking about having a good time, but just doing it?

It really is that simple in some ways. Focus on enjoying yourself throughout your day to day and especially in social situations and perhaps someone will find their way to you instead.

PS: those crystal sellers don't sound to me (generalizing) like good long-term matches for most people. So, stop comparing yourself to them.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#585

Post by rpmisms » Thu, Feb 10, 2022, 1:30 AM UTC

tonguez wrote: post #512

“ Not just coincidentally, “deaths of despair” — those caused by suicide, overdose and alcoholism — have surged to unprecedented levels among middle-aged men over the past 20 years.” The vast majority of those suicides are coming from a specific “ethnic category”. But if you say which one, it makes you a domestic terrorist. What is the motivation to live in a world where you’re not even allowed to talk about what’s h…

If I had to hazard a guess, you feel downtrodden and targeted. Please hear me: I'm sorry. I've gotten my head out of politics lately, and it's seriously improved my mental health. Please cut your news media intake, it will help.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#586

Post by TimTheTinker » Thu, Feb 10, 2022, 1:31 AM UTC

wwweston wrote: post #511

etempleton wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans by and large want to be believers in…something. There is nothing more frightening than someone that really and truly believes something. There is no end to what they will do.

Yep. A total lack of belief to the point of nihilism is a crisis of meaning, to be sure, but it tends to collapse towards either hedonism or depression rather than monomaniacal infliction of harm on the rest of the world. True determined harm usually requires ideological zeal.

> True determined harm usually requires ideological zeal.

That's not what I think motivated all the US school shootings in the last 25 years.

Ideological zeal that pursues actively harming others is something I don't think the US has much of, culturally speaking. No one preaches "those people need to die" or "we need to harm those people".

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#587

Post by Gwarzo » Thu, Feb 10, 2022, 1:33 AM UTC

luckydata wrote: post #311

thrway99 wrote: post #61

My observation is that we are going to have a radical rebalancing of who reproduces and who doesn’t. Lot of men and women who are generally not too motivated to seek out a companion, lose weight, put in the work to make it happen just…won’t pass on genetics. Children are a lot of work and energy. I’m highly introverted and high earning. My wife was the aggressor in my case. She pretty much made it all happen. I think…

This is such a weird take. You really don't need to be all that special or beautiful to find a partner, I've always been a stocky guy all my life and I never had a real issue finding sexual partners and now I'm happily married with kids. Get yourself a personality, don't be weird, dress decently and talk to people. That's really all you need, no matter what you look like there's someone out there that's into it. Don'…

This really is it - all you have to do is consistently be around the opposite sex while being generally likeable and care about your appearance. Eventually SOMEONE is going to find you attractive.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#588

Post by throwaway894345 » Thu, Feb 10, 2022, 1:33 AM UTC

nautilius wrote: post #580

rayiner wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can point to the decline of organized religion and with it traditional gender roles, but then what explains the relative stability in post-Christian Europe? As far as I can tell, Europe isn’t all that post-Christian. Even countries that have low levels of people actively practicing religion still carry a strong cultural legacy from Christianity: https://www.europenowjournal.org/2019/10/02/the-catholic-nes... Co…

Note that 'cultural legacy' is completely different from 'organized religion'. Celebrating 'Christmas' as a family get-together is completely different from celebrating the arrival of the messiah and deriving your complete moral compass from that.

To be fair, you can interpret “cultural legacy” as “celebrating the same holidays” or as “having similar morals even if they are divorced from religious faith”.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#589

Post by rdtwo » Thu, Feb 10, 2022, 1:34 AM UTC

Teknoman117 wrote: post #462

_bkr9 wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A note on fitness. Any pressure I've had to lose weight or whatnot has come from me . All female partners have said that they don't care about my weight, and some actually like some belly to rest on. That said, they have commented favourably on other physical features, and I'm not particularly overweight. I say all this just to try and fight the idea that crops up that if you're male and don't fit some jacked or "Cha…

Forget the incel subculture, media - traditional, social, or otherwise has been feeding us that for decades as well. If you're not thin and "beautiful", your romantic prospects are zero so why even try. Admittedly, it's also partially one's own fault for buying into it, but being fed a continual stream of the best looking people from a young age seriously alters one's perspective. I spent my entire teenage and young…

Why would you start dating in an environment where you are most disadvantaged? In person dating plays to your strength as opposed to online where you are fighting your weakness

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#590

Post by decafninja » Thu, Feb 10, 2022, 1:34 AM UTC

bradlys wrote: post #557

epx wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a son, and am moderately optimistic this has peaked already. As the other commenter said, we see different families in very different mindsets. I have been personally affected by sexism type B: was expected to work, to be a provider someday, to pay my own way to university, if you want a car you buy it, etc. etc. My sister had the second family car at disposal and the tuition was paid for. There was this under…

> We are in 2022 and a nice, wealthy and rational guy won't commit to someone without a career and finances in order. This is more often false than true. I know many men who have or are marrying women who make 1/2 or less what they do. Nice, wealthy, and rational folks. They however need a woman. And there is a strong lack of women who are anywhere near where many men are in compensation and wealth. I am example of t…

Again - unpopular opinion - but I've noticed men tend think of a potential wife's wealth or earning potential much less than vice a versa.

Even when choosing a career, men seem to place a lot of importance on compensation, while women seem to place just as much, if not more, importance on other non-financial factors too.

I am also an example. I make much more than my wife, and it made zero impact on my decision to date and marry her.

In general I rarely see couples where the wife earns significantly more than the husband. Generally the husband makes more, they both make about even, or the wife might make slightly more.