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The data are clear: The boys are not all right

washingtonpost.com

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Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#601

Post by epolanski »

symlinkk wrote: post #496
chrisseaton wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lot of men and women who are generally not too motivated to seek out a companion, lose weight, put in the work to make it happen I don't think you need these things to find a partner and have children. Just go to a maternity ward. It sounds like you think everyone there is highly motivated, physically fit, and dedicated to working on relationships. They aren't. They're just normal people with a range of human flaws…

The selection process is on Tinder, not the maternity ward, and the bar is brutally high there for men.

Tinder isn't for relationships, it's a disgusting people market for hook ups. Every profile is basically an ad for a person.

Online dating is toxic, most people I know that used it years ago are still there safe for few unicorns. How could it possibly be? Weren't they lookimg for someone?

Maybe because it distorts relationships and people as commodities thus making meaningful relationships harder to initiate, maintain and commit.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#603

Post by prawn »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #515
wolverine876 wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you get to say what someone's purpose is? Why is being a provider necessarily the purpose in life? People might have done it before (I'm dubious of sweeping, golden-age claims like that), but for almost all of human history we lived short, brutal, illiterate lives as hunter-gatherers. I don't feel that is necessarily my purpose in life. Find a meaning that is important to you; be a provider if you like. IMHO,…

> Why do you get to say what someone's purpose is? Why is being a provider necessarily the purpose in life? Because this was the case for the last 10,000 years and you cannot change it overnight, unless you are in Soviet Russia and send people to Gulag for re-education. It is built into men's biological nature to be provider (like most mammals in the nature), you cannot change it because society decided less than a g…

I asked someone up thread, but what's stopping males being a provider? The original suggestion was a change from traditional roles is the issue, but I don't think that's it.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#604

Post by valdiorn »

paulcole wrote: post #343
jaywalk wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A woman simply cannot be a role model in all of the same ways as a man, and vice-versa. This belief that men and women are the same and contribute in exactly the same ways is a big part of the problem that this article discusses.

The opinion article you mean, right? I agree that a woman can't be a role model in the same ways as a man, but I believe this is not necessarily a bad thing.

It isn't, in fact it's great that we have different kinds of role models. The problem being discussed is that some people lack certain types of roles models (i.e. male ones)

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#605

Post by rdtwo »

wolverine876 wrote: post #338
thrway99 wrote: post #61

My observation is that we are going to have a radical rebalancing of who reproduces and who doesn’t. Lot of men and women who are generally not too motivated to seek out a companion, lose weight, put in the work to make it happen just…won’t pass on genetics. Children are a lot of work and energy. I’m highly introverted and high earning. My wife was the aggressor in my case. She pretty much made it all happen. I think…

People have been finding partners and having children ... for the entire history of homo sapiens, and our homo ancestors, and their ancestors back to the dawn of sexual reproduction. In fact, there is probably nothing we are better evolved to do than find a partner, make babies, and raise them.

The internet is helping to solve that “problem”

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#606

Post by notriddle »

wwweston wrote: post #511
etempleton wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans by and large want to be believers in…something. There is nothing more frightening than someone that really and truly believes something. There is no end to what they will do.

Yep. A total lack of belief to the point of nihilism is a crisis of meaning, to be sure, but it tends to collapse towards either hedonism or depression rather than monomaniacal infliction of harm on the rest of the world. True determined harm usually requires ideological zeal.

People suffering a crisis of meaning might not inflict harm directly, but instead fail to stop the maniacs who do.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#607

Post by epolanski »

luckydata wrote: post #311
thrway99 wrote: post #61

My observation is that we are going to have a radical rebalancing of who reproduces and who doesn’t. Lot of men and women who are generally not too motivated to seek out a companion, lose weight, put in the work to make it happen just…won’t pass on genetics. Children are a lot of work and energy. I’m highly introverted and high earning. My wife was the aggressor in my case. She pretty much made it all happen. I think…

This is such a weird take. You really don't need to be all that special or beautiful to find a partner, I've always been a stocky guy all my life and I never had a real issue finding sexual partners and now I'm happily married with kids. Get yourself a personality, don't be weird, dress decently and talk to people. That's really all you need, no matter what you look like there's someone out there that's into it. Don'…

Spot on, I would also add, have a purpose in life, be honest, practice self discipline to achieve your goals.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#608

Post by cperciva »

joshuamorton wrote: post #592
cperciva wrote: post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that men always want sex is routinely described as "toxic masculinity". Tell me, when I was sexually assaulted by a woman who told me that I should want what she was doing and there was something wrong with me if I didn't, who was being masculine?

I think you're maybe misunderstanding something about "toxic masculinity" here. Because what you're describing is exactly what I'd call a perfect example of toxic masculinity. The conceptualization that men always want sex is false, but like it is a stereotype that exists. That someone used that stereotype about masculinity to try and justify assault (to you, perhaps to themselves also?) is what makes such stereotype…

Right, that stereotype, and its use to justify sexual assault, is absolutely toxic. But there's nothing masculine about it, hence my objection to using the phrase "toxic masculinity" to describe it.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#609

Post by fouc »

> Many boys are thus often growing up raised by single mothers, the share more than doubling between 1980 and 2019, from 18 percent to 40 percent.

This is surprising to me when the reduction in crime in NY in the 1980s/1990s is often attributed to allowing abortions, i.e. a reduction in single mothers.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#610

Post by rdtwo »

Gwarzo wrote: post #587
luckydata wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a weird take. You really don't need to be all that special or beautiful to find a partner, I've always been a stocky guy all my life and I never had a real issue finding sexual partners and now I'm happily married with kids. Get yourself a personality, don't be weird, dress decently and talk to people. That's really all you need, no matter what you look like there's someone out there that's into it. Don'…

This really is it - all you have to do is consistently be around the opposite sex while being generally likeable and care about your appearance. Eventually SOMEONE is going to find you attractive.

Yeah exactly this you just need to put in time and effort.
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