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TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

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Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#301

Post by piggybox »

snehk wrote: post #54
cm2012 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TikTok should be banned in the US. China banned all of our homegrown social networks, its pretty standard international precedent to ban theirs, given the security risks.

China didn't specifically "ban" US social networks because they were US social networks. The companies themselves didn't want to comply with Chinese laws so they cannot operate there. It's the same as Facebook now threatening to leave the EU if they have to comply with EU data protection laws.

1) In FB's own words: https://about.fb.com/news/2022/02/meta-is-absolutely-not-thr... so mass media just put the word into FB's mouth

2) On "China didn't ban ...", that's the case for Google and Linkedin China, but it's actually a kind of "soft" ban that the cost to meet the regulatory requirements is too high to afford even for biggest companies in the world.

3) FB case was a bit different. It was never given any opportunity to operate in China, so FB didn't "chose" to leave. We would never know what FB would do if given the chance. Maybe leave all user data there inside the great wall, as Apple does in its special version of iCloud in China.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#302

Post by colejohnson66 »

dragonelite wrote: post #179
cm2012 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TikTok should be banned in the US. China banned all of our homegrown social networks, its pretty standard international precedent to ban theirs, given the security risks.

No US tech just doesn't want to follow Chinese law so they left, kind of like how facebook threatened to leave EU recently. If the EU continues with their cyber law.

They aren't: https://about.fb.com/news/2022/02/meta-is-absolutely-not-thr...

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#303

Post by kube-system »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #283
robbedpeter wrote: post #5

It's not unclear at all. It's Chinese data harvesting software. They'll do token public appeasement to avoid negative pressure, but every feature in the app is designed to collect biometrics and behavioral data. China is not a good faith operator. Given the data needed to influence public opinion and voting, they will engage in manipulation favorable to their interests. That alone is sufficient to run tiktok at a los…

> China is not a good faith operator. Well, neither is the USA and its NSA and its Five Eyes and all these actors who spy on pretty much everything and everyone. American companies are either complicit or blissfully ignorant. They violate the constitutional rights of their own citizens, principles their own country was literally founded upon, so there's no telling what they'd do to a foreigner. People are so afraid o…

The difference is that most western countries allow private organizations to have a significantly higher degree of autonomy from executive action and checks-and-balances to back it up.

The process can sometimes result in some of the same things happening, but the fact that they are not being done unilaterally is a major differentiator in multiple ways.

Your data in the US is much more likely to be abused when corporate interests voluntarily want to make money off it, than any abuse by executive power.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#304

Post by wbsss4412 »

ipaddr wrote: post #300
wbsss4412 wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Post Snowden leaks, one could pretty much say the same about any American tech giant.

It is a little different with the nsa tapping the underwater cable trying to steal info where in China they create an internet where they hire millions of people to watch every conversation happening in real time. One couldn't say the same.. at all.

Yes, if you completely minimize the level of bulk data collection the NSA and the US does through its partners, it’s completely different. You’ve left out all of the prism program, wherein the government had direct access to telecom and tech company servers.

What China does inside of China doesn’t have any bearing on the western internet. The topic at hand is the data collection that tic tok is engaging in, which already has plenty of precedent in the west, unfortunately.

It’s completely contrary to the values enshrined in the US constitution to make arguments like, “ah well but that person/group/country is bad and we aren’t” the entire political theory our nation is supposed to be built on is the notion that people with too much power will do bad things.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#305

Post by piggybox »

bakuninsbart wrote: post #176
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, I actually see this as a very simple trade issue! China doesn't allow US social networks in China, so the US shouldn't allow Chinese social networks in the US. Doing anything else means that Chinese companies have the ability to build international platforms—where both Chinese and US citizens can participate—and US companies do not. Furthermore, those international platforms could potentially be made to enforc…

US social networks are allowed to operate in China, they just have to follow the local law. Facebook was banned after denying the authorities the data of Uighur protesters after a deathly riot in 2009. Imagine the outcry here if a riot that left more than a hundred people dead was organized on facebook, and then the company decides to protect the rioters. Google and Twitter decided that the backlash back home wasn't…

Let me remind you that once upon a time a US company gave some email data to the authorities of China, the CEO of the company was sued in US and later resigned. That company was Yahoo!

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#306

Post by vineyardmike »

yorwba wrote: post #243
vineyardmike wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bytedance has been pretty adamant that TikTok is external to China and doesn't share data. Considering that there are TikTok employees in china - both engineers and moderators, there is no chance that china doesn't influence TikTok. Even Zoom which is a clearly american company that has chinese employees wasn't immune to chinese influence. source: i personally know a tiktok employee in china.

Does that TikTok employee you know have access to user data?

Does it matter? The presence of an office full of people in china means that there is an office full of people that can be exploited and controlled by the Chinese government.

Also, until recently they employed moderators in china, who by definition have access to customer data. So yes, the Chinese offices have/had access to customer data.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#307

Post by netcan »

wbsss4412 wrote: post #290
ketzo wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's hugely disingenuous, to the point of bad faith, to pretend there's not a massive difference between the internet in the U.S. and in China.

There’s a massive difference in the internet itself, but the topic of discussion here is data collection, which isn’t really a massive difference.

Exactly. This isn't a general comparison of china to the US. It's a specific comparison of how bad data collection practices and the only (IMO) sane conclusion is that it's all quite terrible. One is not disconnected to the other either. The reason tiktok can collect all this data is precedents and norms established by google and FB.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#308

Post by l33t2328 »

cvlasdkv wrote: post #266
friedman23 wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You claim there is "sufficient evidence" yet provide none Do I need to provide evidence that the Chinese government should not be trusted and that China has control over all businesses based within its borders? This is common knowledge. > I'm less worried than if it were used by American companies to target me specifically for ads You should try practicing what you preach regarding so called xenophobia. Also your d…

[flagged]

> genocidal dictatorship

Do you believe in earnest that China is not a genocidal dictatorship?

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#309

Post by beepbooptheory »

friedman23 wrote: post #291
beepbooptheory wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then isn't this circular? They create the app to harvest the data to help them stifle the conversation they have made possible by creating the app in the first place!

You are assuming that the platform would not exist if the company didn't create it. But if tiktok doesn't exist the discussion would just happen somewhere else. I should also say that I'm not suggesting that tiktok was created for the sole purpose of pushing propaganda from its inception.

Well then I guess there is nothing left to say, as there is absolutely nothing that can be falsified in your beliefs, only the single-minded faith in an absolute national enemy.

I only wish y'all could hear yourselves when you say these things, with even a fraction more rational clarity, even an ounce more suspicion of the political narratives at work here.

These conversations are deeply troubling to me, makes me absolutely ashamed to be a westerner of any sorts. I think I will go find greener pastures now, thanks for the wake up call, hope you find peace too.

Re: TikTok shares your data more than any other app and it’s unclear where it goes

#310

Post by williamscales »

duxup wrote: post #89
williamscales wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A

I'm aware of that. This is what I meant by how hard it is to talk about 'all'. Someone says all and then someone gives an example that's not all and so what are we talking about? Ultimately I think there are differences between country A and country B's methods and etc.

Yeah, I mean what is “all”?

In terms of internet traffic, my understanding is that the NSA would have access to a significant fraction of all of it via this room (and perhaps others). A significant enough fraction that there’s a high likelihood any given internet communication could be intercepted. Maybe not every time but enough stuff routes through the US that eventually it will be seen.

So to me I’ve feel comfortable using “all” in a loose (empirical) sense. But I see your point that it’s not as clear.

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