The data are clear: The boys are not all right • Hacker News Board

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#51

Post by vmception » Wed, Feb 09, 2022, 6:42 PM UTC

BitwiseFool wrote: post #38

salawat wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legal marriage is decreasing. You can draw on more benefits as single from the System. Legal marriage also leads to pathological complications in terms of seperation in some states.

A substantial population of men are also deeply concerned that a legal marriage will end in a costly, lopsided, and devastating divorce. It is no secret that women have the advantage in such proceedings.

For the breadwinner the outcome isn't very gendered, except for the conditions of custody of any children.

And although not very gendered, it is a shitty contract where the worst clauses have extremely high rates of occurring. Even when isolating to later aged upper middle class economic equals, a 10% rate of triggering the worst clauses in a financial contract is extremely bad.

You simply can't decouple the financial aspects of a financial contract just because how someone might have been conditioned to romanticize an overarching concept.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#52

Post by zapataband1 » Wed, Feb 09, 2022, 6:42 PM UTC

decafninja wrote: post #4

Possible unpopular opinion, but my wife and I want just one kid, and would greatly, greatly, prefer a daughter for reasons that include some mentioned in this article. I feel a son would be so much harder to raise in today's world.

Seems you've put a lot of thought into this, I think whatever your kid turns out to be they're already at a huge advantage to have someone like you

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#53

Post by photochemsyn » Wed, Feb 09, 2022, 6:42 PM UTC

I wonder if social media technology is as much at fault as the neoliberal program of exporting well-paid manufacturing jobs overseas and replacing them with low-paid service jobs (with the difference going into the pockets of the shareholders) is.

If children are being raised on TikTok, okay, the average video length on TikTok is a couple minutes. Advertisements are now 5-15 seconds. This is not conducive to 'long attention span'. Now, imagine popping these kids into a classroom and expecting them to pay close attention for, say, 15 minutes, without any breaks. What to do... diagnose them with ADHD and dose them with amphetamines, what else? Of course this is the same issue for girls and boys but is generally going to create more of a dumbed-down population. Kids are probably better off playing video games instead, those require more attention. Even better, encourage them to read actual books.

I wonder if the WaPo would be interested in publishing any critiques of social media effects on children, given their ties to Big Tech... Let's see... "New report: Most teens say social media makes them feel better, not worse, about themselves (2018)"

Corporate media claims... remember this one? "NAFTA and China WTO will raise the standard of living for all Americans!"

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#54

Post by bmj » Wed, Feb 09, 2022, 6:44 PM UTC

alphabettsy wrote: post #20

Purely anecdotal, but it was uncool, dorky, nerdy, etc. where I grew up for boys to be interested in math or even English, but “more manly stuff” like working with your hands was highly encouraged. It seems that kind of culture will result in men being less likely to end up in higher paying careers.l than girls who are being encouraged to pursue STEM.

You do realize that a career in the skilled trades can lead to very good pay, right? Yes, the work can be hard, and the hours sometimes long, but there are very clear paths to working independently, or for small shops/contractors that provide a nice degree of independence and good pay.

I think high school kids in the U.S. should be exposed to STEM, the humanities, and the trades. We have pushed college/academic achievement long enough, and I suspect that some of the data we are seeing represents a backlash against it, particularly when you consider the cost of university and the job prospects for new graduates.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#55

Post by micromacrofoot » Wed, Feb 09, 2022, 6:44 PM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #26

Of course. We treat females like they are a marginalized minority. My son’s school has a “Girls Can Code” program. All collateral features women and girls. (Boys are welcome though) I worked at a place where a C-level executive hosted company endorsed dinners at her home for female managers to mentor them for executive roles. If I setup a boys club for computers at school or hosted a men’s IT society at work, that wo…

women have been marginalized for most of modern history, so it's not like it's a false assumption... I guess maybe you could make an argument for over-correction? but a lot of women would disagree.

>If I setup a boys club for computers at school or hosted a men’s IT society at work, that wouldn’t end well.

That's because most computer clubs and IT societies are already primarily men. It's kind of the default, which is why women-only groups are seen as transformative.

If you want to look at it in a different way, you probably wouldn't have a problem setting up a group that teaches miners IT

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#56

Post by zozbot234 » Wed, Feb 09, 2022, 6:44 PM UTC

BitwiseFool wrote: post #43

commandlinefan wrote: post #29

> As men’s unemployment rises, their romantic prospects decline. Conversely: as young men's potential future employability rises, their romantic prospects also decline. That is - the men who'll grow up to be stable and reliable have lonely teenage years.

I'm one of these men and I hope this actually works out in the end. I sense that men also have a biological clock but we can reassure ourselves that we can keep putting off settling down because of the biological reality of male reproduction. If I just get a little more successful, then I will be more attractive in courtship. But the thing is, you lose track of time really quickly. And, it is quite the bootstrapping…

> Being awkward around women in High School is a given, but as a thirty-something it can be profoundly uncomfortable and off-putting.

Males should be fixing that by making some female friends. Don't go the "creepy incel who hates all women and Chads" route.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#57

Post by stronglikedan » Wed, Feb 09, 2022, 6:44 PM UTC

decafninja wrote: post #4

Possible unpopular opinion, but my wife and I want just one kid, and would greatly, greatly, prefer a daughter for reasons that include some mentioned in this article. I feel a son would be so much harder to raise in today's world.

> a son would be so much harder to raise in today's world

Maybe, but today's world is not the world your son would grow up in. We're at the end of the cycle from the G. Michael Hopf quote below. The beginning of the cycle is once again imminent, thankfully.

"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times."

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#58

Post by junga » Wed, Feb 09, 2022, 6:45 PM UTC

trentnix wrote: post #24

junga wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you mentioned data: You sure do have data to back your claims?

A Google search will provide lots more examples, but here’s an example: https://www.bbc.com/news/education-47057787.amp

I tend to agree with that piece. But what made me ask for data in the first place was my perception of the opening of your post which I read as „living in a traditional two parent household is more beneficial than being a white male“ since you mentioned race and gender.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#59

Post by rhino369 » Wed, Feb 09, 2022, 6:45 PM UTC

bmj wrote: post #35

johncessna wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> More U.S. men ages 18 to 34 are now living with their parents than with romantic partners. and > Research shows that one significant factor women look for in a partner is a steady job. As men’s unemployment rises, their romantic prospects decline. Unsurprisingly, according to a Pew Research Center analysis of data from 1960 to 2010, the proportion of adults without a college degree who marry plummeted from just ove…

As the father of 18 year old who is not going to college and instead working as a carpenter, I don't think lumping 18 year olds with 25+ year olds makes much sense. Perhaps I have an antiquated view of family, but I don't feel his "independence" has everything to do with where he lives. I'm more than happy to have him around the house if it allows him to save money and live a better life at, say, 21.

It absolutely makes sense. The idea that an 18 year old would start their own household is an artifact from a small period in our history when 18 year olds could easily get an unskilled job that would afford a decent modest lifestyle. But that only really started in the late 40's and was over by the 70's.

Re: The data are clear: The boys are not all right

#60

Post by bmj » Wed, Feb 09, 2022, 6:45 PM UTC

SuoDuanDao wrote: post #40

bmj wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the father of 18 year old who is not going to college and instead working as a carpenter, I don't think lumping 18 year olds with 25+ year olds makes much sense. Perhaps I have an antiquated view of family, but I don't feel his "independence" has everything to do with where he lives. I'm more than happy to have him around the house if it allows him to save money and live a better life at, say, 21.

Sure, it can be a great arrangement. It will slow down his dating prospects though, who can host if a relationship gets serious is a common discussion in dating.

Dating for the 18-21 cohort, outside of the university setting, is already very challenging. Truth be told, some of the women my son has dated in this cohort also live at home.