Earlier quoted context omitted.
Phase velocity vs group velocity. But it's pretty easy to check that everything is alright with group velocity. If there is zero neutrino production at t=0 (in the reactor's frame of reference), and then the production jumps up, there can be no doubt about the group velocity. Bizarre effects relative to superluminal phase velocity only appear when you start generating particles before t=0 and you mess with the medium…
Phase velocity vs group velocity. Yes, thank you. Why did it take me so many words? :)
Speed-of-light experiments yield baffling result at LHC
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Re: Speed-of-light experiments yield baffling result at LHC
#92A news article where both the scientists and the reporter understate the claims, publish the data, and ask other teams to please prove them wrong. I like this. Most of the time the reporters overstate the research, the scientists keep the data secret, and the general public is left scratching their heads.
Most of the time ... the scientists keep the data secret Um, no. There are plenty of data being released, and in even more cases the scientists are happy to give you the data if you ask. It's very dependent on discipline, though. In astronomy, pretty much all data obtained with publicly funded facilities (e.g. including all large space instruments) are accessible by anyone after a proprietary period of 1 year.
Re: Speed-of-light experiments yield baffling result at LHC
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
Um... is there any trace of neutrino bursts before that? Im not sure anyone bothered checking, since such a correlation would have been very hard to justify. A neutrino burst 4 years before a supernova... so what? Could a physicist clarify whether neutrinos could travel at different speeds in vacuum like any 'normal' particle, or are 'fixed speed' like photons. We could well have had several waves with the bulk arriv…
Well, the point is that there was a neutrino burst coincident with SN87a. So if there was one 4yr earlier, too, then you'd have to explain how the same event produced two bursts of neutrinos with different speeds, while within the burst they apparently had exactly the same speed. If neutrinos have mass, they can travel at any speed (Edit: In fact, the arrival interval of those neutrinos puts an upper limit on the neu…
It could be some phenomenon similar to what we see in emission spectrums, where a pure source can emit photons at multiple precise energy levels. except that in the case of particles with mass(apparently neutrinos have a mass) this would result in a difference in speed. Not a big enough difference to be noticed on 700 km , but enough to make a 4 yr difference on 170kly.
Of course this is still wild speculation without much background.
Re: Speed-of-light experiments yield baffling result at LHC
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
Scientist rarely keep the data secret. It's the basis of peer review. There's a reason why open access journals (PLoS One) are getting so popular, scientists want to be known and publish. In my experience, ego is a currency much more valuable than money in academic circles.
The vast majority of the world's petroleum geologists keep their data secret.
This has happened in other fields.
Re: Speed-of-light experiments yield baffling result at LHC
#95Bearing in mind 'spooky action at a distance', shouldn't we be expecting to see some kind of mechanism that would imply some kind of particle accounting behind the scenes, that might appear as objects or information moving faster than the speed of light?
Re: Speed-of-light experiments yield baffling result at LHC
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, the point is that there was a neutrino burst coincident with SN87a. So if there was one 4yr earlier, too, then you'd have to explain how the same event produced two bursts of neutrinos with different speeds, while within the burst they apparently had exactly the same speed. If neutrinos have mass, they can travel at any speed (Edit: In fact, the arrival interval of those neutrinos puts an upper limit on the neu…
I'm no physicist, so I am just guessing. It could be some phenomenon similar to what we see in emission spectrums, where a pure source can emit photons at multiple precise energy levels. except that in the case of particles with mass(apparently neutrinos have a mass) this would result in a difference in speed. Not a big enough difference to be noticed on 700 km , but enough to make a 4 yr difference on 170kly. Of cou…
Re: Speed-of-light experiments yield baffling result at LHC
#97If this result is valid then it would mean that neutrinos are capable of traveling .0025% faster than light. There was a supernova that we observed in 1987 (SN 1987) that occurred 168,000 light years away from us. A neutrino burst was observed in 3 different labs about 3 hours before the light was observed. If neutrinos are capable of traveling .0025% faster than the speed of light then why would we observe these neu…
Re: Speed-of-light experiments yield baffling result at LHC
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
Phase velocity vs group velocity. Yes, thank you. Why did it take me so many words? :)
I'm glad that it did take you so many words. I remember reading about this a while back, but could never remember what it was called, or why the light particles actually didn't break the speed barrier. I really appreciate your laymen explanation, and now, thanks to you parent, also know what the effect is called.
Re: Speed-of-light experiments yield baffling result at LHC
#99Well Hellen Blavatsky was right after all; Science must finnally accept not just the existence of matter but of Spirit as well. Besides scientific calculation of speed is based on the assumption that the velocities of transmission of all the colors are the same. Namely, if we call "W" length of the wave of any given color in ether, and "V" the velocity of transmission of that color, and "N" number of vibrations or wa…
wat
Against the background of this solid conclusion of science, Blavatsky, writing in 1888 in the Secret Doctrine (volume I of the Secret Doctrine, called "Science and the Secret Doctrine Contrasted), gave her readers an intimation of the future when she hinted with a question.
True, the corpuscular theory of old is rejected, and the undulatory theory has taken its place. But the question is, whether the latter is so firmly established as not to be liable to be dethroned as was its predecessor? THIS HAS BEGAN!!
Re: Speed-of-light experiments yield baffling result at LHC
#100Similar results seem to have already been obtained in the past http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutrino#Speed QUOTE In the early 1980s, first measurements of neutrino speed were done using pulsed pion beams (produced by pulsed proton beams hitting a target). The pions decayed producing neutrinos, and the neutrino interactions observed within a time window in a detector at a distance were consistent with the speed of lig…
OPERA needs an intense and energetic beam of muon neutrinos traveling a distance of hundreds of kilometers to seek for the appearance of oscillated tau neutrinos. A beam of this type is generated from collisions of accelerated protons with a graphite target after focussing the particles produced (pions and kaons in particular) in the desired direction. The products of their decays, muons and neutrinos, continue to travel in generally the same direction as the parent particle. Muon neutrinos produced in this way at CERN cross the earth crust reaching OPERA after a 732 km journey.