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Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

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Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#591

Post by lotsofpulp »

isaacaggrey wrote: post #472
rootusrootus wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> laws allow for sub-standard wages, such as restaurant wait staff The law does not allow for sub-standard wages, however. If everyone stopped tipping today, wait staff would get the same minimum wage as any other job.

For those curious, this is accurate according to Department of Labor: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped However, I think the point being advocated in this thread is that businesses should have to pay minimum wage ( before tips). That said, it would be interesting how employers would respond if that was required by law - since removing tips would not save the employer any money, I wonder if th…

You can see the results in states that have no tipped minimum wage, such as WA/CA/OR.

Generally, restaurant prices are higher (minimum $25 per meal per person without alcoholic drinks), but tipping is still expected by the waiters for waited service. Bottom line is waiters earn more money, but possibly fewer people can afford to eat out and maybe there are fewer waiters overall.

I dislike waited food service anyway, I much prefer to just buy at the counter and bus my own table, and it might result in more restaurants like that.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#592

Post by kyawzazaw »

exikyut wrote: post #220
tiffanyh wrote: post #86

This is the outcome of Apple's 2020 acquisition of Mobeewave. https://www.pymnts.com/apple/2020/apple-buys-mobeewave-for-1... It essentially turns an iOS device into a POS system. Apple already gets 15 bps for all Apple Pay transactions. I'm curious to hear the additional monetization Apple plans to get for this.

I was wondering how this was done. How on earth was what amounted to a userspace app able to talk to the NFC hardware to the extent necessary to process payments?! Presumably the app received the relevant entitlements to be able to do this...? How on earth was it done securely, within the Mobeewave app?

Check this out as well from Visa.

Disclaimer: I worked/work on this https://usa.visa.com/about-visa/newsroom/press-releases.rele...

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#593

Post by GrifMD »

stefan_ wrote: post #583
sebzim4500 wrote: post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you concerned about a malicious employee using their own iphone to steal the money? Why couldn't they give you their own square terminal? On that note, when you pay cash why can't they just pocket whatever you give them? I don't see why you care anyway, they would be stealing from the store, not from you. You would already have whatever item you are buying.

Because I can somewhat trust the Square terminal will show the correct amount? If I swipe some random persons iPhone, whats stopping them from showing a $10 total and charging $1000? Is the iPhone gonna print a receipt?

This is an interesting to think about. Say you're at an ice cream stand that has a Square Reader (the little square hockey puck reader) that's paired with an iPhone running Square's payment reader.

The merchant rings you up for $5, shows you the phone in their hand indicating the cost, and the Square Reader lights up to show it's ready for payment. You pay via inserting your credit card, which processes in a few seconds, and then the payment is complete. The merchant is no longer showing you the phone, and presumably hits "No Receipt".

However, the merchant actually has a second out of sight device that is set to charge $500 and is actually paired with the Square Reader. Because you've paid with a physical card, there's a good chance you won't notice the charge till you go to pay your credit card or check your bank account.

This would probably be a short-lived scam, as the merchant's malicious Square account would have to be linked to a bank (I think this is the only option), which would identify them. I'm pretty sure Square requires ID verification of some sort as well. So reporting this malicious transaction to your bank/credit card would flag them.

Additionally, if you're paying via a mobile wallet, you'll likely get an immediate notification saying "You paid $500 to Malicious Ice Cream Vendor".

Now let's think about Apple's new plan. It could be that Apple layer's it's own mandatory interface that shows "Pay $5 to Ice Cream Vendor" regardless of the app being used. Maybe this is actually the employee's phone instead of the company's device, but that's the same as the employee stealing cash out of the register, so not really your issue.

Or Apple could not layer it's own UI, and just open up the radio as an API. Apple could require that apps that use this API to have some additional verification to prevent someone from making an app that displays "Charge $5" when it's really charging $500.

All that being said, I only see smaller merchants using iPhones + Square Readers. Maybe some boutique stores, food trucks, etc. Once a store gets large enough, they usually want dedicated hardware, even if it's a Square Stand.

---

Here's Square's hardware page if you want visuals: https://squareup.com/au/en/hardware

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#594

Post by kyawzazaw »

mackmgg wrote: post #186
ucha wrote: post #167

EDIT: thanks everyone for quickly correcting my mistake, I missed the part that explained that more forms of contactless payments would be accepted I don't really understand why a merchant would use this feature. If you already use a PoS, why would you replace it with another one that only supports customers who own an Apple device? If you accepted only cash, maybe it's a small improvement because you can use your ex…

There are lots of small vendors (especially at farmers markets) still using the swipe only Square reader. This will presumably allow them to start accepting contactless as well. The main advantage of this is most banks put the liability from fraud on the business for swipe/manual entry transactions, but not for EMV (chip/tap) transactions.

What do you think of this?

https://usa.visa.com/about-visa/newsroom/press-releases.rele...

Note: I worked on this

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#595

Post by numbsafari »

yuuu wrote: post #67
TIPSIO wrote: post #47

I would really like to see it become normal for tipping people this way (that isn't at a cash register / tap) but with AirDrop. For example, I recently had movers. I went out of my way to get a cash tip for them earlier. It would have been nice to skip that and just ping it at them somehow without awkwardly saying "Hey friend do you have Venmo? Apple Pay? CashApp? I'd like to tip you. What's your phone number?! Let m…

I had movers a couple months ago and tried to tip them. Note that I don't ever carry cash and am a proponent of abolishing the Federal Reserve. I asked them for their Ethereum or Bitcoin address, and they said, "neither of us don't have that, but we take cash." I calmly tried to explain to them the evils of the Federal Reserve for around five minutes, then began to set them up with their own cryptocurrency wallets on…

You tipped movers $5 and stole their time from them so you could play with your toys.

I'm surprised all you got was a "Bless you, bless you" response and not a shiv or a fist sandwich.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#596

Post by madeofpalk »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #245
melling wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The long slow road to contactless payments. Almost 2 decades along in the technology adoption curve. I was ready for this in 2005. https://money.howstuffworks.com/personal-finance/debt-manage... If course as the article points out, it wasn’t even new technology back then: “ Not Exactly New Tech Mobile introduced the Speedpass in 1997. Speedpass is a small device on a keychain (called a fob) that users wave in front o…

When I visited Australia in 2015, I was really impressed with the ubiquity and speed of TAP to pay. We aren't quite their in the USA yet, but I do 90% of my payments outside using my Apple watch (with a bit of a lag that I didn't see in Aus). At least we aren't stuck using QR codes.

2011 was when I saw country McDonalds adopt contactless in Australia. From then it was a pretty quick adoption for it to be ubiquitous.

I'm currently on a trip back to Australia and I forgot my wallet (!!), but it's fine because I just use Apple Pay everywhere. It's never once been a problem.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#597

Post by softveda »

mastazi wrote: post #589
vxNsr wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to share some examples? I’ve never seen this in the US

In Italy, debit cards have numbers that are not embossed (however they are slightly "engraved" i.e. the number forms a slight depression on the card - basically the opposite of embossing). IIRC I've seen the same in other EU countries. I now live in Australia and in my experience, here all cards are embossed, no matter if they are credit or debit cards.

Most new cards that I have seen in Australia doesn't have embossing, they have flat surface. The number is simply printed on the back. Many banks allow you to lock the card using the App as well.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#598

Post by tantalor »

jedberg wrote: post #565
jhatax wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the way you are describing this, you seem distrustful of someone who walks up to you with a device, scans a barcode, shows you the price of said item which matches the tag in your hand, prints a receipt, accepts a tap as payment, let's you walk away with said item. This flow summarizes almost every transaction I have had at Banana Republic, Gap, and the Apple Store, to name a few retailers. I have not had reason…

My default is to distrust someone with nothing but what looks like a personal phone, until I'm sufficiently convinced that they are in fact who they say they are. In every experience you describe, the device they use is not just a standard iPhone. It usually has a special case with a card scanner and reciept printer for starters. At the Apple store they wear apple badges and have branded clothing. I haven't been to t…

I love the idea of some scammer setting up a fake POS in a store and checking out customers. They would probably try to blend in with the real staff and use legit looking gear.

- Our inventory system went down so I have to type in your total

- All set, it just automatically e-mails you the receipt

- (Who are you?) Corporate sent me, I'm in a different store everyday

This has probably been done before.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#599

Post by mehrdada »

bdamm wrote: post #402
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of credit cards (Apple...) no longer have raised numbers, or a number on the front at all.

Or even, in Apple's case, a consistent "card" attached number at all.

Is that right? My understanding is the physical AppleCard has a fixed number that is simply not printed and relies on rotating CVV via the standard chip reading like most standard chip cards. The device-based ApplePay can rotate its number but that too only rotates CVV by default.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#600

Post by hunter2_ »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #591
isaacaggrey wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those curious, this is accurate according to Department of Labor: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped However, I think the point being advocated in this thread is that businesses should have to pay minimum wage ( before tips). That said, it would be interesting how employers would respond if that was required by law - since removing tips would not save the employer any money, I wonder if th…

You can see the results in states that have no tipped minimum wage, such as WA/CA/OR. Generally, restaurant prices are higher (minimum $25 per meal per person without alcoholic drinks), but tipping is still expected by the waiters for waited service. Bottom line is waiters earn more money, but possibly fewer people can afford to eat out and maybe there are fewer waiters overall. I dislike waited food service anyway,…

What are your thoughts about using a counter and self-bussing but the clerk faces a tablet at you with 3 large buttons: 18%, 20%, 25% ?

Not only will the personal service be minimal, but the only part you can even judge at that point is how well they took your order... who knows if something will go south! So it's clearly just about keeping menu prices artificially low.

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