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Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

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Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#581

Post by throwaway894345 »

digisign wrote: post #537
throwaway894345 wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In civilized countries they have direct bank to bank transfers I'm sure whatever country you're from (or otherwise alluding to) is a fine place, no need for the transparent insecurity. :) Narrowly, I agree that secure (and fee-less) bank-to-bank transfers would be preferable to CC. > They are required for the CC transaction, this adds an additional player that should not be necessary. We're positing a situation whe…

>> CC's aren't available A misstatement by me, still they are extra to what should be a bank to bank matter.

No argument from me here. I would like to see better financial infrastructure. Specifically the idea that VISA is permitted to collect a 4% sales tax on virtually everything is a real bummer.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#582

Post by WatchDog »

anonymouse008 wrote: post #393
sabjut wrote: post #14

Clarification due to a somewhat confusing title: This is about the merchant using an iPhone to accept credit cards and other Tap to Pay devices. The customer was able to pay with Tap to Pay with their iPhone for a while now.

The real news is Apple specifically took a non competitive stance — making the API available to third parties like Stripe - rather than building in house, leveraging Apple Card connections, or similar

Presumably, in order to become an approved partner, you need to pay a kickback to apple.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#583

Post by stefan_ »

sebzim4500 wrote: post #572
pedalpete wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was my initial thinking, but then I think most businesses won't want to use a phone as their payment platform. My reasoning is that when I go into a business and I tap the Square terminal, I am assuming that terminal belongs to the business, because what individual would have their own square terminal. If the person who is ringing me up has an iPhone, and says "just tap this", there is a part of me that is wonde…

Are you concerned about a malicious employee using their own iphone to steal the money? Why couldn't they give you their own square terminal? On that note, when you pay cash why can't they just pocket whatever you give them? I don't see why you care anyway, they would be stealing from the store, not from you. You would already have whatever item you are buying.

Because I can somewhat trust the Square terminal will show the correct amount? If I swipe some random persons iPhone, whats stopping them from showing a $10 total and charging $1000?

Is the iPhone gonna print a receipt?

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#584

Post by throwaway894345 »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #262
throwaway894345 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear, the US has contactless payments all over and probably has had them since ~2015, it just took some time for people to "discover" them.

A lot of POS's support contactless payments, but they were kind of flaky for the first two years, and...oddly slow. Fred Meyers here in WA still doesn't support contactless payments (QFC, owned by the same company, does, however), annoying since I still have to shop there often.

> A lot of POS's support contactless payments, but they were kind of flaky for the first two years

Yeah, that was my experience as well.

> Fred Meyers here in WA still doesn't support contactless payments (QFC, owned by the same company, does, however), annoying since I still have to shop there often.

I've largely had good experiences all over the midwest, but there are a few Stripe card readers that advertise "contactless" but don't actually work (probably misconfigured?). I've been traveling around AZ recently, and I've found a few POS terminals that don't support contactless at all, strangely. But overall they seem pretty widely available.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#585

Post by reaperducer »

TIPSIO wrote: post #47

I would really like to see it become normal for tipping people this way (that isn't at a cash register / tap) but with AirDrop. For example, I recently had movers. I went out of my way to get a cash tip for them earlier. It would have been nice to skip that and just ping it at them somehow without awkwardly saying "Hey friend do you have Venmo? Apple Pay? CashApp? I'd like to tip you. What's your phone number?! Let m…

I would really like to see it become normal for tipping people this way (that isn't at a cash register / tap) but with AirDrop.

I totally agree.

At a parking garage the other day, there was a long line of people trying to get their cars back from the valets because one person was trying to tip with some random app.

"Oh, you need to download this. Yeah, open the App Store. Then download it. Yeah, it take a while. OK, now sign up. --five minutes elapse-- OK, now what's your username so I can send you the money? Did you say 'e' or 'v?' Was that '4114' or '1144?' OK. Sending now..."

It took like ten minutes.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#586

Post by reaperducer »

hn_throwaway_69 wrote: post #55
TIPSIO wrote: post #47

I would really like to see it become normal for tipping people this way (that isn't at a cash register / tap) but with AirDrop. For example, I recently had movers. I went out of my way to get a cash tip for them earlier. It would have been nice to skip that and just ping it at them somehow without awkwardly saying "Hey friend do you have Venmo? Apple Pay? CashApp? I'd like to tip you. What's your phone number?! Let m…

Eh, I hope it doesn't. Tipping needs to die out. I'd prefer to have the moving company pay the movers a living wage such that a tip would be unnecessary and politely refused.

I'd prefer to have the moving company pay the movers a living wage such that a tip would be unnecessary and politely refused.

Clearly, you have no idea of how the moving industry works. Everybody's a contractor of a contractor of a franchisee. The person who picks up your stuff is not always the person who delivers it.

When I move (frequently), I make sure to tip each person packing my stuff $50, each person loading my stuff $50, and the driver $100 for 2,000 miles.

Lifting and carrying and handling other people's prized possessions isn't an easy job. This is how I show appreciation when the job is done well.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#587

Post by aetherspawn »

barkerja wrote: post #576
aetherspawn wrote: post #575

This is such a big deal because for small merchants, these terminals are generally really expensive and take high cuts. Now small cafes, tradies, etc getting on their feet can use the hardware they already have to start processing straight away.

Does the use of a terminal tack on more fees in addition to the fees the processor already takes?

In a lot of cases the processor is not the bank (SmartPay, Square, etc), so usually, yes, they'll want a cut. And then you'll also get charged for the paper rolls (for receipts), and renting of the EFTPOS equipment if you rent it.

I ripped this off some marketing material that I found for a popular EFTPOS terminal in Australia:

A merchant service fee is a fee you pay to your EFTPOS provider to process your transaction payments. This fee is calculated as a percentage (or fixed fee) of every transaction where a customer swipes, inserts, or taps their card at your terminal.

For every transaction, your bank pays fees which include: a fee to the issuing bank (e.g. the bank that issued the card), the scheme fee (e.g. Visa, Mastercard, EFTPOS), and the switch fee (who processes the transaction).

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#588

Post by alimov »

thebean11 wrote: post #36
samwillis wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it's possible to perform a MITM attack on contactless cards. From a quick google: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/9220841 I do also remember reading about researchers at Cambridge University who were looking at this maybe 7-8 years ago.

Interesting! Wasn't aware of that. Is this something that's being actively exploited in the wild though? It won't let me read the actual paper so it's hard for me to tell how practical the attack is.

Impractical things have a tendency to become practical when enough money is involved:)

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#589

Post by mastazi »

vxNsr wrote: post #364
scrollaway wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cards are slowly moving towards not having printed numbers at all, and having the numbers only available via the issuer's app or website. This allows for rotating numbers.

Care to share some examples? I’ve never seen this in the US

In Italy, debit cards have numbers that are not embossed (however they are slightly "engraved" i.e. the number forms a slight depression on the card - basically the opposite of embossing). IIRC I've seen the same in other EU countries. I now live in Australia and in my experience, here all cards are embossed, no matter if they are credit or debit cards.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#590

Post by Thrymr »

Apocryphon wrote: post #408
digisign wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are required for the CC transaction, this adds an additional player that should not be necessary. In civilized countries they have direct bank to bank transfers.

"Civilized" countries?

That don't require tipping?
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