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Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

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Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#401
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm less concerned about anything complex and more about just paying the right folks.

That's literally the job of the clerk, not you.

As someone who lives in a society, I'd say it's both the store and the customer's job to make sure the right people get paid.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something I was thinking about the other day is how some modern credit cards technically have four different ways to pay. Swiping pressure-sensitive paper over the raised numbers (the original method) is still possible, though I haven't seen a merchant actually do this since maybe the mid-2000's. Then you have magstripe, chip, and RFID all in the same card. Pretty impressive backwards compatibility, although I think…

A lot of credit cards (Apple...) no longer have raised numbers, or a number on the front at all.

Or even, in Apple's case, a consistent "card" attached number at all.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#404
post #14

Clarification due to a somewhat confusing title: This is about the merchant using an iPhone to accept credit cards and other Tap to Pay devices. The customer was able to pay with Tap to Pay with their iPhone for a while now.

The real news is Apple specifically took a non competitive stance — making the API available to third parties like Stripe - rather than building in house, leveraging Apple Card connections, or similar

They probably don't want any more anti-competitive criticism right now.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#405
Man, I swear sometimes I feel like I’m on a forum full of wanted criminals, state actors, and/or felons.

I’m not saying I’m against privacy. I am all for not being tracked, but we are approaching absurdity.

I really want to see all of you who praise “privacy” go fully offline and use only cash. No cards. No bank account. Nothing. Salary? Cash, because earnings could also be sold and used for advertising. Groceries? Cash. Gas? Cash. No checks also, as they can be tracked /s Also, while we are at it, no Android, no iOS, no Windows or Macs. Only Linux, because we can’t trust UE vendors.

Really, maybe we should start spending our energy in convincing legislators that PII should not be sold along with transaction data/histories. Matter a fact, let’s rally for universal privacy laws. How about that?

Let’s not go 50 back in evolution just because “visa bad”. I’m happy not to lose cash or reach for my wallet anymore.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure would be nice if Apple and Google got together to accept each other's systems. Or even better: If there was a standard that let any device send money with any other device (using compatible hardware). Imagine if there was a regulation that required interoperability. Or if the banks were forced to allow (authenticated) payments between systems without transaction fees. We're 20 years overdue for this.

Some kind of permissionless transactions on a decentralized ledger? I don't think the technology exists.

Maybe we will have something like that once "crypto" dies.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly don't see what's so revolutionary about this. Why would anyone shell out multiple hundreds of € when a device that accepts payments can be purchased for a fraction of the iPhone price? E.g the most expensive device here [1] is only 120 €, and it can also print the bill. The cheapest that does the job is a mere 20 €.

American merchants doing low customer volume (e.g. small shop, cafe, restaurant) are usually locked into using something like a terminal from First Data (~$150-200 USD minimum for the most basic device) and something in the ballpark of 2.2% to 2.7% in fees for every transaction. People paying the lower rate are doing over $50k per month in transaction volume. Compare that to competitors in the space like Square, whic…

I suspect the real benefit is situations where the seller comes to you. A cafe can have an additional piece of equipment sitting on the counter for taking payments, but if you're a handyman or something, going to someone's house, being able to take payment on the spot using the phone already in your phone seems like a valuable convenience.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't arguing in favor of Venmo, but are VISA and MasterCard really better options in this regard?

They are required for the CC transaction, this adds an additional player that should not be necessary. In civilized countries they have direct bank to bank transfers.

"Civilized" countries?

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I studied abroad in France in 2012--at this time, all European card readers had been chip-based for quite a while and my US credit card didn't have one. I couldn't figure out how to use them and many store clerks had no idea what to do with my magnetic-strip credit card. I went to England in 2019, at which point cards in the US had been updated to use magnetic stripes, and everyone was using tap-to-pay. It turns out…

..just dont go to Germany. We are not very advanced in that regard. Of course huge amounts of stores offer contactless paying, but generally Cash is still dominant around here. Change is slow, and currently, Cash is still king, especially with small or street merchants.

To clarify, you can rely on nearly any supermarket or drug store to accept credit cards / contactless these days. Daily shopping is no problem.

Smaller stores or restaurants, forget it. Bring cash.

Re: Apple unveils contactless payments via Tap to Pay on iPhone

#410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple Pay only tokenizes card information once when the card is added to the Apple Wallet on a device, not for every transaction. This means that usage for an on-device tokenized card can still be tracked until the card is removed and re-added.

I believe while the token is generated once, each transaction is signed with a unique signature (I believe that's the term) that only the payment processor can decipher. The merchant doesn't get any stable/identifiable information that can be used to track you across purchases/sessions/stores.

No, the merchant still does get a stable identifier with every payment (the "device account number").

More recently, an additional identifier uniquely identifying the underlying card has also been added [1]. That one persists even across multiple devices and token deletions.

[1] https://www.level2kernel.com/payment_account_reference.html

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