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Thank You, Valve

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Re: Thank You, Valve

#251

Post by pbhjpbhj »

crtasm wrote: post #210
parkingrift wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why anti-cheat should be performance based. Build a model based on the way that verified elite players play the game, and their performance. Compare “normal” players against the model and look for outliers. Manually review accounts that look suspicious. Cheat behavior is obvious. Ridiculous long distance accuracy. Weird movement. Weird map awareness. Weird awareness of other players. Etc.

Valve do this, here's a good talk: Robocalypse Now: Using Deep Learning to Combat Cheating in Counter-Strike: Global Offensive https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTiP0zKF9bc

This is kinda weird, CSGO has spinbots and xp-farming bots: one moves faster than is humanly possible, the other moves on the spot or in a circle with exact constant rotation ... the only conclusion I can make is CSGO want these bots, because auto-blocking them seems trivial.

Why use deep learning when so, so many bots (and their host accounts) could be blocked with trivial heuristics? My only guess is allowing spinbots/farming somehow provides a financial gain in CSGO?

Re: Thank You, Valve

#252

Post by JamesMcMinn »

R0flcopt3r wrote: post #172
JamesMcMinn wrote: post #58

I am very excited by the Steam Deck and have paid for my place in the queue (hopefully some time this year). I am a long time desktop Linux user, however I also game and have either had to dual boot, or more recently, game inside a Windows VM because of DRM and unsupported games. The biggest issue I can can see with the Steam Deck, or more specifically, Linux on the Steam Deck, is Microsoft's Game Pass. It simply wil…

People still buy Nintendo and Sony consoles which also don't come with Xbox Game Pass, so I fail to see the argument here..

I'm not arguing that people wont buy the console, I'm arguing that if they buy a console that has support for a different operating system, one which plays all of the same games and more, and also enables them to use services that they already pay for, then they're going to install that other operating system.

A relatively small number of people are buying the steam deck to use Linux, most are buying it to play games on.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#253

Post by okamiueru »

dijit wrote: post #233
Rooster61 wrote: post #28

I dig most of this article, and I do applaud the work Valve is doing for the Linux gaming ecosystem, but I draw a line at supporting kernel level anti-cheat drivers. That trend in gaming bothers me to no end, and I refuse to knowingly install a game that features one. The presence of 15 year old script kiddies using aimbots does NOT IN ANY WAY justify having kernel level control over my machine, Linux or otherwise. V…

This comment deserves a much more detailed response than I'm able to give at the moment, but I can give some very brief thoughts: Let me say that I have been working in AAA online game development for more than 7 years now; I have worked on games that had 10's of millions of players, and these were full fat $60 AAA games. Cheating was the second[0] biggest issue of our games, it sucked the entire enjoyment out- getti…

Was there an attempt at detecting cheaters by modeling human reaction times and otherwise inputs, and thus detecting non-human like inputs?

Re: Thank You, Valve

#254

Post by vintermann »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #144
oauea wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never trust the client. Trying to install a rootkit on your users' computers won't change the reality of client-server security.

I agree, and I think that like DRM anti-cheat is generally a customer-hostile losing battle. The big problem is that companies are trying to solve a social problem (cheating) with a technological solution and, predictably, failing. Partly this is motivated by profit: if you required online gamers to be real verifiable people, with all suspected cheating was judged by a human being, and bans were permanent and landed…

I think a lot of the prevalence of cheating has to have some economic roots. A certain kind of cheater, the kind who buy new accounts (maybe with new cosmetics) every time they are banned, isn't necessarily someone a company wants to get rid of permanently.

The benefits of this sort of income may be high compared to the benefit of being a "serious competitive game".

I think Minecraft servers are instructive, because they're often run just as cynically as free to play games, but with less competence, so it's easier to see what's going on. You do see a lot of pay-to-unban there, for instance.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#255

Post by zentiggr »

cinntaile wrote: post #60
Rooster61 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have. Many times. Yes, its a bit of a bummer. No, it still doesn't justify Tencent being able to see more about what is going on in my machine better than I can. Video games are a hobby for 99% of people out there, including myself. I can do without a plaything if it means not handing over the keys of the computer I built with my own hands to nefarious actors. That is FAR AND AWAY more important to me, and I'd hope…

Why does it matter if you built the computer with your own hands? It's sad that we need invasive anticheat but if that's what it takes to get a somewhat cheater free gaming environment I am ok with that. I'll take that over ruined games by cheaters any day of the week.

Until some overly agressive anti-cheat that has kernel level access, decides to blacklist your machine, and because of whatever black boxed bugs, blocks your machine's Ethernet connections, all of them, and now you're stuck until you reimage and remove that borked kernel, except that they implemented an IME level code chunk that immediately downloads the anti-cheat code on the IME channel, and now your machine can never connect to the internet again until you replace the motherboard.

Convince me that won't happen...

Re: Thank You, Valve

#257

Post by foxyv »

gbersac wrote: post #160
sph wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steam is successful not because it's hard to bypass, but because it's so fucking convenient. "Piracy is a service problem." — Gabe Newell

100% true. I don't pirate game because it's easier to just click buy on steam.

Not to mention 99% of the cracked games out there come with fun little friends that will encrypt your hard drive for you and charge you a nominal fee.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#258

Post by alkonaut »

dagw wrote: post #56
Rooster61 wrote: post #28

I dig most of this article, and I do applaud the work Valve is doing for the Linux gaming ecosystem, but I draw a line at supporting kernel level anti-cheat drivers. That trend in gaming bothers me to no end, and I refuse to knowingly install a game that features one. The presence of 15 year old script kiddies using aimbots does NOT IN ANY WAY justify having kernel level control over my machine, Linux or otherwise. V…

If I played competitive video games seriously I would absolutely want them to take cheating seriously and take any necessary measure to stop it. At the same time I think they should also make the most serious kernel/driver level anti-cheat software optional. If you don't to want to install it you can still play the game, just not on any of the 'pro' servers. Think of it a bit like doping tests in sports. As long as y…

> Just not on any of the 'pro' servers.

No, the other way around. On "pro" servers there is moderation that makes cheating a non-issue. It's in the casual space that cheaters ruin everything, because there isn't any human moderation.

I'd phrase it as "you can still play the game, just not against other humans".

Re: Thank You, Valve

#259

Post by wnoise »

zozbot234 wrote: post #65
oefrha wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? You can totally build an aimbot using nothing but image recognition.

Image recognition is way too slow to help with aiming.

Used to be. Moore's law isn't quite dead yet, nor are algorithmic computer vision improvements.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#260

Post by nullify88 »

erwincoumans wrote: post #14

And damn Valve for not supporting a 64 bit Linux Steam client. Having to mess with installing 32bit OpenGL drivers just for Valve, sometimes messing up the installation left a bad taste. At least give users the option to pick either 32bit or 64bit client. I'm sure many would happily drop 32bit games support for that. And people who want 32bit games pick the 32bit client. https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-lin…

There is a community contributed Steam Flatpak that isolates its dependencies away from the system. https://flathub.org/apps/details/com.valvesoftware.Steam

Seemed to do the job fine, ymmv.

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