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Thank You, Valve

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Re: Thank You, Valve

#171

Post by underdeserver »

busterarm wrote: post #82
dagw wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I played competitive video games seriously I would absolutely want them to take cheating seriously and take any necessary measure to stop it. At the same time I think they should also make the most serious kernel/driver level anti-cheat software optional. If you don't to want to install it you can still play the game, just not on any of the 'pro' servers. Think of it a bit like doping tests in sports. As long as y…

The serious cheats in competitive games these days don't rely on hacking the game anymore. They use a separate computer connected taking your HDMI out as an input and then controls your mouse and keyboard inputs. They use ML models and OpenCV. You watch the second computer's monitor and it draws huge boxes around things you shoot and it assists your aim. It doesn't even have to be a PC game, you can do the same with…

Citation needed, seriously. These things need to be crazy fast to process and respond fast enough.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#172

Post by R0flcopt3r »

JamesMcMinn wrote: post #58

I am very excited by the Steam Deck and have paid for my place in the queue (hopefully some time this year). I am a long time desktop Linux user, however I also game and have either had to dual boot, or more recently, game inside a Windows VM because of DRM and unsupported games. The biggest issue I can can see with the Steam Deck, or more specifically, Linux on the Steam Deck, is Microsoft's Game Pass. It simply wil…

People still buy Nintendo and Sony consoles which also don't come with Xbox Game Pass, so I fail to see the argument here..

Re: Thank You, Valve

#173

Post by donatj »

Chris2048 wrote: post #132
donatj wrote: post #85

I hope Valve brings something like they have done for Linux to macOS. I opened Steam the other day, and by default it’s filtered to only show the games my system can play. I was curious how many games I’d lost to Apple dropping support for 32 bit, I’d never looked before. I can play 94 of my 345 Steam games. My heart literally sunk when I saw this.

But why? Shouldn't Apple be doing the work?

Apple dropped 32 bit support, it was intentional. They’re not going back on it. They have a long history of showing no interest in software preservation.

Valve has the technology. Wine runs on macOS. Just need to apply it to Steam for Mac.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#174

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

NmAmDa wrote: post #140
Vermeulen wrote: post #31

As a game dev it surprises me the constant push from some Linux players to still make a native Linux version, considering how good Valve's Proton layer is. I don't think they understand that while making a new Linux build can be trivial (in Unity), dealing with all the support issues for that isn't. I don't have time to track down audio issues for some random Linux version for 0.001% of players Yet if I say I'll only…

They are small subset of players because there are no wide support for gaming on Linux. If this change by game developers then this percentage will increase dramatically.

There's no wide support for gaming on Linux Desktop because historically there hasn't been anything one could call "The Linux Desktop" for them to target. The landscape is so ludicrously fragmented that you can't rely on any software to be installed other than the kernel. Valve got around this by just packing their own runtime libraries with Steam.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#175

Post by pdimitar »

maccard wrote: post #98
LanceH wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, anti-cheat software doesn't guarantee anything of the sort. There are still plenty of cheats out there. Second, this was already a solved problem since we could run our own servers and kick whoever we wanted. But this has largely been taken away, to the point that people don't know it ever existed.

> First, anti-cheat software doesn't guarantee anything of the sort. There are still plenty of cheats out there. It's not a binary thing. There will always be cheats. It's about raising the bar to be difficult enough for enough people to not bother. If you want an example of the effect cheating can have on games, look at Fall guys. It shipped as a unity game, was immediately reverse engineered and the game was effect…

> It's about raising the bar to be difficult enough for enough people to not bother.

It does not do that either. I've been on certain... interesting forums, shall we say (in Tor; and I don't remember the names, was a casual stroll through it and I made no effort to write down any place I checked on -- before you ask). Whoever wants a cheat eventually finds the best cheat authors who are quiet and are not drawing attention to themselves but have public Web 2.0 sites where they sell their software.

Nobody has defeated a certain class of cheats yet. They hook up to the kernel even before the anti-cheat system and it's game over from there.

Let's not pretend that all this is for the user's safety. It probably is intended like so but nowadays it feels like the companies are just digging their heels in and doubling down on a measure that doesn't stop the truly dedicated cheaters whose software is very affordable to buy to the casual 13 year old who wants to have the best K/D ratio in Battlefield in their school.

And everybody else loses, including the companies because if Valve wants to install a kernel rootkit on my Linux machine they'll lose my business there (and I suspect most Linux users because we are of a certain mindset). And all casual gamers HATE the series of "Install X?" and "Are you sure?" banners, too. Annoy them for long enough and they'll just shrug and move to XBox / PS / Switch. I've seen it happen a good amount of times already.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#176

Post by rglullis »

Kuinox wrote: post #35
Rooster61 wrote: post #28

I dig most of this article, and I do applaud the work Valve is doing for the Linux gaming ecosystem, but I draw a line at supporting kernel level anti-cheat drivers. That trend in gaming bothers me to no end, and I refuse to knowingly install a game that features one. The presence of 15 year old script kiddies using aimbots does NOT IN ANY WAY justify having kernel level control over my machine, Linux or otherwise. V…

I wish you to play a competitive multiplayer game filled with cheaters. You don't know if your opponent is good or cheating. It simply kill all the fun. If it won't work on PC, multiplayer gaming will simply moves to consoles. Great, now you are stuck with a closed standard, with a closed OS, where you can't run the programs you want.

> It simply kill all the fun.

Then it is up for game developers to find a better solution to the problem, not for us to accept a violation of our privacy.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#177

Post by R0flcopt3r »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #163
yepthatsreality wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First people complain that no one will use Linux because theirs no hardware. Then they complain they can’t use Linux because of the software support. We now have both and now people won’t use Linux because Microsoft acquired studio’s games will only run on Windows? That moving goal post doesn’t look good for the Switch or PlayStation platforms then.

I mean, there are a lot of reasons not to use Linux still, just because Valve solved a few of them doesn't make any of the others illegitimate. I mean, christ, the desktop user experience is still pretty goddamned terrible, and the only reason I'm personally considering switching in the near future is that Microsoft is working hard to make Windows even worse.

The desktop user experience suck on all platforms. Macos is ridden with bugs and inflexibility, Windows is just confusing to me, and Linux depends on which of the hundreds of experiences you pick.

I game on Windows, work on Mac. Used fedora daily through uni and before.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#178

Post by usrusr »

Aeolun wrote: post #26
sillysaurusx wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh please. Any time a company does something good. "Let's not kid ourselves. It's all for the money, honey!" Well yeah. That's what a company is. Companies are also people, and people make decisions, and those decisions are sometimes influenced by more than the mere bottom line. You can't read their minds, and it's the opposite of charitable to assume the worst. Fully agree about the rest though. It certainly makes b…

I mean, Valve is still privately owned as far as I know, so wherever it’s going is entirely up to the mind of it’s founders. Edit: Tring to do good, and they made Dota 2?

Privately owned and operated means that squeezing out a little more profit hasn't much influence on the owner's wealth. Which happens to be the decisionmaker's wealth. And there's a real possibility that they will care how their money gets to them. But being publicly traded changes everything, suddenly a crowdsourced projection of profits into the future enters the picture, leveraged to the nth degree. This even affects companies still held by a strong founder majority. And when decisions are delegated to the salaried class, incentivized by options and bonus mechanisms, the payoff magnification effect gets even stronger. Suddenly a percentage point change in profits can cause a tenfold change in personal wealth. Or more. When there are tradeoffs to be made between decency and greed, always bet on the public company outdoing the private. It's not a guaranteed win, there are some truly nasty examples of privates, but they are outliers. Publicly traded means nasty by design.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#179

Post by donkarma »

busterarm wrote: post #82
dagw wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I played competitive video games seriously I would absolutely want them to take cheating seriously and take any necessary measure to stop it. At the same time I think they should also make the most serious kernel/driver level anti-cheat software optional. If you don't to want to install it you can still play the game, just not on any of the 'pro' servers. Think of it a bit like doping tests in sports. As long as y…

The serious cheats in competitive games these days don't rely on hacking the game anymore. They use a separate computer connected taking your HDMI out as an input and then controls your mouse and keyboard inputs. They use ML models and OpenCV. You watch the second computer's monitor and it draws huge boxes around things you shoot and it assists your aim. It doesn't even have to be a PC game, you can do the same with…

no this is wrong, these cheats are completely unreliable, most people use DMA devices and NeTV2 overlay for league ACs

Re: Thank You, Valve

#180

Post by mikepurvis »

Rooster61 wrote: post #28

I dig most of this article, and I do applaud the work Valve is doing for the Linux gaming ecosystem, but I draw a line at supporting kernel level anti-cheat drivers. That trend in gaming bothers me to no end, and I refuse to knowingly install a game that features one. The presence of 15 year old script kiddies using aimbots does NOT IN ANY WAY justify having kernel level control over my machine, Linux or otherwise. V…

> free reign

In case you're curious, it's a horse thing: https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/usage-free-rei...

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