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Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study

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Re: Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study

#81

Post by wdwvt1 »

steelstraw wrote: post #40
wdwvt1 wrote: post #29

Gut microbiome researcher here - not involved in this study but happy to answer questions or dig in with anyone interested!

Is there a good way to test one's own gut microbiome? To determine how healthy it is or isn't, and to track how it changes over time. Basically I want to be able to tell how my diet and things like antibiotics affect it.

I think it's really hard - we don't know what a healthy state of the microbiome is. There is likely a lot of individuality, what is healthy for me is maybe not healthy for you. This probably has to do with early life immune system development and what we were exposed to as kids.

At a high level we know that diversity of microbial species in the gut (but for instance, not in the vagina) is linked to better overall health state. Is this because of the microbes? Probably not, it's probably that the microbes are a sensor/responding to an overall healthy diet/ecosystem.

In general, there are commercial services to track your microbiome and they are interesting from a data perspective, but I am not sure you will get much health information out of them.

We know the answer to a healthy diet - there are no microbial talismans - but it's just not sexy. Eat lots of plants, less sugar, and exercise. I wish it was as easy to follow this advice as it is to write haha.

Re: Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study

#82

Post by asdfman123 »

cmckn wrote: post #19
taeric wrote: post #10

For those curious, morganella is the main culprit listed here, it seems. Wikipedia isn't clear to me on how one gets this in your biome. Outside of other susp conditions. :(

My personal, completely unsubstantiated take is: your diet allows certain bacteria to thrive (or not). It’s less about trying to avoid the bad ones and more about trying to nurture the good ones. One incredible thing you can do for your gut is eat more fiber; which the vast majority of Americans don’t. Try psyllium husk powder (the stuff in Metamucil). Eat less refined sugar and saturated fat; eat more raw and fermen…

The rule of thumb in nutrition is diet is way more effective than supplements.

There's a place for supplements, some of them may be helpful or not, but having a good diet that naturally includes those things is always better.

Re: Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study

#83

Post by asdfman123 »

zabzonk wrote: post #69

> Thus, the newest study seems to be “further proof” that inflammation caused by gut microbes can influence mood Of course it bloody can - if you have IBS or any number of other gut-related problems, believe me you are very likely to be depressed, because the symptoms of these are very nasty and humiliating. This does not mean that the bacteria are directly affecting the CNS. Also: > Kiebdiella It's Klebsiella

No post body was provided.

Re: Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study

#84

Post by happylion0801 »

aussieguy1234 wrote: post #49
happylion0801 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a fellow comment says - its all over the place and kind of hard to say, see [1] saying they are useless but lots of studies saying they are useful . Personally as someone with IBS, I have tried many probiotics over the years and have mixed results - most of them were useless but for some time I found one or 2 that worked but I couldnt say for sure if they worked due to other factors (for e.g generally healthier fo…

Not sure if you have heard of the low FODMAP diet? Its now the standard treatment for IBS. The theory is certain bacteria ferment FODMAPS into gas and water which leads to the symptoms. They don't know which bacteria yet but going low fodmap is now a well researched and accepted treatment. Everyone is different but personally, I'm able to tolerate everything except Fructans (one of several types of FODMAPS). So no ga…

Yes of course. I did low-fodmap for many months few years ago and continue to do it (when I go to an unknown place for example or travel).

In studies Low-fodmap is typically only recommended for ~6 weeks. I now try to eat any kind food though, I eat everything in smaller quantities and this also helps.

I personally found that a combination of diet, stress, sleep control are the most effective for managing IBS symptoms. Any one of those can flare up the symptoms at any time and managing all of them is key

Re: Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study

#85

Post by aussieguy1234 »

CodeGlitch wrote: post #71
dan353hehe wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was skeptical of this when I first heard of it several years ago. It sounded just like every other popular diet does: “Just (don’t) eat this certain food, and you will feel amazing!” But I have several family members on it right now, and they all report feeling WAY better. And this is after years of dealing with IBS type problems too.

Another successful patient of the low FODMAP diet here. As soon as I stray from the restrictions I will suffer the next day. IBS can be crippling. Honestly the scientist(s) who developed the low FODMAP diet needs to be awarded a Nobel prize.

It's the same for me. If I eat the wrong food, I'll feel fine for the rest of that day.

Then the next day, almost always in the morning is when the problems will start. Perhaps the bacteria had time to ferment the food overnight.

So when I have symptoms, I always look at what I ate the previous day.

Re: Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study

#86

Post by zabzonk »

asdfman123 wrote: post #83
zabzonk wrote: post #69

> Thus, the newest study seems to be “further proof” that inflammation caused by gut microbes can influence mood Of course it bloody can - if you have IBS or any number of other gut-related problems, believe me you are very likely to be depressed, because the symptoms of these are very nasty and humiliating. This does not mean that the bacteria are directly affecting the CNS. Also: > Kiebdiella It's Klebsiella

Quoted post unavailable.

No. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klebsiella

Re: Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study

#87

Post by thenerdhead »

I've seen these studies time and time again. I do wonder what are the practical steps one takes to "repair" or "renew" their gut? I'm not a fan of drugs being the cure. In fact, I don't think they are the first solution people should hope for or supplement with unless it's not practical to get them in a natural way.

I feel like we see more and more gut related issues due to depression & depression's little cousin anxiety. IBS for example manifests itself from anxiety and can also be a gut microbiome imbalance.

If there are more and more studies around gut health being a sort-of panacea of mental & physical health, why aren't we focusing on making healthier decisions for our diet, exercise, and mental well being?

It's no surprise that many people(myself included) in our always connected world suffer with crippling anxiety from over stimulation/shock & awe news/comparison to others/overwork/etc. That anxiety manifests in your gut as digestive issues. Those digestive issues make you less likely to exercise for long periods of time or even at all.

In my opinion, it's four main things. Increase sleep, improve/wide ranging diet, moderate exercise, and reduced stress. There are definitely hacks like fiber, yogurt, sauerkraut, and more that people swear by, but I am genuinely curious if a study had tracked some of these variables to see if they improve gut microbiomes.

Re: Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study

#88

Post by wdwvt1 »

antiterra wrote: post #37
wdwvt1 wrote: post #29

Gut microbiome researcher here - not involved in this study but happy to answer questions or dig in with anyone interested!

Is there evidence of gut biome activity directly interacting with the mesh of nerves in our digestive tract?

Absolutely - the chemicals that microbes make in the gut pass into your blood stream and from there access the entire body. There are mechanisms the body uses to ensure these chemicals are detoxified (phase I and phase II metabolism in the liver) and that they are excreted if they reach too high a concentration.

More locally, the enteroendocrine cells (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enteroendocrine_cell) that line the gut translate much of the internal nutrient state of the gut up to the brain to tell you things about if you should eat, etc.

There is a lot of research on how we could alter satiety by finding the right language that these cells use. There are approved drugs on the market that mimic the activity of these cells (incretin mimetics) to reduce appetite/weight control.

Re: Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study

#90

Post by pknight »

wdwvt1 wrote: post #74
pknight wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird question perhaps, some research suggests that bacteria source nutrients from the cell lining in the gut if there is an absence of sufficient nutrients from the food coming into the digestive system. (example: https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(16)31464-7 ) That made me wonder what the triggers might be, since the studies see the corroding effect appear in diets deficient in polyphenols/insoluble fibr…

Fascinating question - and not one whose answer is known. Fiber is good for microbes merely by the virtue that humans lack the glycan-degrading enzymes that are necessary to break it down, so it reaches the colon intact where the microbes can eat it. Humans can digest starch (though it can be physically and chemically modified to be harder to digest) but not the hundreds of other types of fibers that are found in a t…

Very interesting, thank you for answering!
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