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Amazon Pip Horror Story

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Re: Amazon Pip Horror Story

#591
post #98
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That first post, is that the acceptance speech for a Nobel prize?

I'm also curious about that. I'm just starting out in industry and am confused if most people are expected to do that. Do future recruiters go through your old linkedin posts for stuff like this? Or is it just a general update for their personal circle - basically the corporate version of instagram stories.

The latter, and about as worthwhile.

Re: Amazon Pip Horror Story

#592
post #8

Is it really so dysfunctional there that if this happens to you (manager puts you on PIP upon being notified you're doing an internal transfer) there's no one to talk to to make this right? Maybe his manager is a piece of shit, but I can't believe there's no one to report to above him that can see this for what it is and make it right?

People don’t get friendlier up the food chain. It’s highly likely the line manager is reacting to pressure coming from above themselves.

Re: Amazon Pip Horror Story

#593
post #325
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If my health insurance weren't so dependent on employment, I'd agree more.

It is true, a lot of tech companies will give you very good medical coverage without pay period fees but at the end of the day this boils down to money. Your salary is adjusted based on the company paying whatever rates they pay to offer you great insurance. When doing contract work, you might be paying $500 / month out of pocket for medical insurance but your hourly rate is likely higher than your hourly rate as a W…

Here's how you pick dental insurance: it doesn't matter much because it isn't insurance at all. It's just a maintenance plan. The purpose of insurance is to buffer you against sudden large costs by having the insurance pay them while collecting enough of a premium from everyone that they come out ahead. The purpose of a dental plan is to pay for typical costs and completely bail on you if your costs go over a fixed amount per year (typically $1000-$3000). Look closely: every dental plan you are being offered likely has an annual maximum benefit per year of somewhere in this range ($1500 is common). I've had the insurance company cheerily say "yes, that procedure that costs $54000 is covered at 100%! ... up to your annual maximum, which is $1500. You will be responsible for the rest."

Re: Amazon Pip Horror Story

#594
post #540

I've been an Amazon SDE and an Amazon SDM. I enjoyed my time as an SDE, luckily free from these horror stories. After having been an SDM, I understand how these horror stories can form. Generally, Amazon has two minds about performance management. In written documentation, it's all about whether your reports meet the role guidelines. The written documentation is solid. They share how to evaluate people objectively an…

Are managers also put on pip? Especially those who try to dodge their teams from stack ranking? Is stack ranking practiced for managers as well?

Yes they can be. Managers also get evaluated the same way. But replacing a manager is usually more hassle, so it's not as common to push them out to meet your URA quota. I've seen it happen once, and they re-org'ed and abolished the entire team (distributed everyone to other teams).

Failing to meet URA targets is one sure way to get antagonize superiors.

Re: Amazon Pip Horror Story

#595

At this point, I'm not sure why anyone would choose to work at Amazon over other companies. What do they offer over their competitors? Same work and pay at other big tech, but you don't have to worry about potentially crazy hours or getting fired for no reason. Or any of the other great companies outside of big tech. Good pay, good impact, no PIP culture. Recruiters from AMZN are trying to lure me away from Google (a…

you are forgetting Facebook. it is Amazon culture on steroids

I'm suprised to hear Facebook is this way. Almost everyone in Facebook that I know is chilling 50% of the time :)

Re: Amazon Pip Horror Story

#596

The pip quota is a HUGE perverse incentive here. Choosing someone to put on pip is hard because it is in manager's best interest to protect their core team from pip. So if someone is too good for your team, you put them on pip. They are going to leave anyway, so putting them on pip does the least damage to your team. The other pathological result is hiring dummies just to put them on pip, again protecting the core te…

The root cause for almost every Amazon horror story is the URA goal.

Re: Amazon Pip Horror Story

#597

This is a phenomenon common to all low grade/incompetent dev managers: When a dev asks for a team change they view it as a slap in the face because it has happened to them so often in the past and they take it as a personal offence. The fact is they are lousy managers and usually incompetent and nobody wants to work in their team. So they go on the offensive and try to manage the dev out before senior management real…

This might not be the case here. As the OP theorized, they were already on the way out of the team, so why not use them to fill up the PIP quotas? The manager might not be incompetent, but they sure are an asshole

If you get PIPed at amazon, you can't transfer teams. It locks you to your current team until you "improve"

Re: Amazon Pip Horror Story

#598
post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have a hand of cards you want to optimize it makes sense to keep discarding and redrawing your worst cards. At the beginning your worst cards are probably below average, so any new replacement is statistically likely to be better. But even when you reach the point where all your cards are above average it can make sense to keep redrawing a small percentage, since that's the only way to get more aces. Of course…

> If you have a hand of cards you want to optimize it makes sense to keep discarding and redrawing your worst cards. But this makes sense _in a game with a fixed hand size_. But a company's staff should grow over time. So shouldn't one have an ROI-based criteria where you want each team member to help grow generate meaningfully more revenue than they cost to employ. If my "lowest" performing team members still make m…

Isn't that the point of the end of that comment?

Re: Amazon Pip Horror Story

#599
post #8

Is it really so dysfunctional there that if this happens to you (manager puts you on PIP upon being notified you're doing an internal transfer) there's no one to talk to to make this right? Maybe his manager is a piece of shit, but I can't believe there's no one to report to above him that can see this for what it is and make it right?

People don’t get friendlier up the food chain. It’s highly likely the line manager is reacting to pressure coming from above themselves.

Agree. It is unlikely the manager did this out of pettiness. He probably got pressured by his L7/L8 to fire someone for his org to meet the URA goal. He made the obvious choice and picked the guy applying for internal transfer. Why lose two people when you could just lose one?

Re: Amazon Pip Horror Story

#600

I've been an Amazon SDE and an Amazon SDM. I enjoyed my time as an SDE, luckily free from these horror stories. After having been an SDM, I understand how these horror stories can form. Generally, Amazon has two minds about performance management. In written documentation, it's all about whether your reports meet the role guidelines. The written documentation is solid. They share how to evaluate people objectively an…

That sounds pretty depressing. I do not think I would ever want to work at Amazon, or at a place like Amazon. The whole performance review thing feels like a proxy for something else I can't quite put my finger on, but feels creepy nonetheless. And it strikes me as a particularly American preoccupation, although I don't know if this is the case.
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