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Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

boston.com

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Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#171

Post by spicybright »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #145
simion314 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But HOW do we know is safer? We should not assume is safer by default and I see many problems with Tesla fanboys numbers 1 the count for the times drivers intervene to prevent a crash are secret, or are not counted at a crash. 2 I don't want on my village/city some american car that is safer then the american driver that included 16 year old drunk teens and people that don't even have to pass exams and medical tests.…

> But HOW do we know is safer? We measure. This requires transparency on the part of Tesla, but if we frame it as "if you want legal FSD, you have to comply with transparency". We regulate like this in all other industries so there's no reason to think we can't do it here. > We should not assume is safer by default No one is advocating "assume it is safer by default". > I see many problems with Tesla fanboys numbers…

> This requires transparency on the part of Tesla

Good fucking luck, that's going to be harder than pulling Elon's teeth out.

Telsa has regularly lied about how well the system works, and will continue to do so unless we strong arm some independent verification on them.

And good luck getting that to happen. Governments roll onto their backs for Musk like it's the second coming of christ.

FSD should not be on the road without transparency. I don't want to get in car accidents because Musk wants to beta test crappy software.

Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#172

Post by simion314 »

ASalazarMX wrote: post #123
simion314 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should this be legal? Some rich Tesla fanboy beta testing buggy software with a misleading name of autopilot or FSD ont he streets where your children walk? I am not aware of such laws but they shoudl exist, otherwise other companies can start alpha testing with random fanboys.

Oh no, the children! 2025: Elon announces BabyX, in vitro baby factory, claims he's cloning any baby killed by a Tesla vehicle, for free.

>Oh no, the children!

Yeah dude, not sure where you are from but there are special traffic rules related to children , like how to drive around schools, school buses and children, because children are doing stupid things and schools are marked with special signs so the driver knows to pay more attention in this area.

Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#173

Post by millzlane »

CultMember009 wrote: post #166
jondwillis wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As one of the “rich Tesla fanboys” you describe, no, probably it should not be legal. That being said, it has made me re-realize that humans are really terrible drivers as well, myself included, just less terrible on average, currently.

I respect your honesty and encourage you to try some remedial driving lessons to avoid being a “really terrible driver.” It can save your life and others also.

All the remedial driving lessons in the world can't prevent you from making a mistake and killing someone.

Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#174

Post by throwaway894345 »

spicybright wrote: post #171
throwaway894345 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But HOW do we know is safer? We measure. This requires transparency on the part of Tesla, but if we frame it as "if you want legal FSD, you have to comply with transparency". We regulate like this in all other industries so there's no reason to think we can't do it here. > We should not assume is safer by default No one is advocating "assume it is safer by default". > I see many problems with Tesla fanboys numbers…

> This requires transparency on the part of Tesla Good fucking luck, that's going to be harder than pulling Elon's teeth out. Telsa has regularly lied about how well the system works, and will continue to do so unless we strong arm some independent verification on them. And good luck getting that to happen. Governments roll onto their backs for Musk like it's the second coming of christ. FSD should not be on the road…

> Governments roll onto their backs for Musk like it's the second coming of christ.

Lol, nonsense. Musk moved Tesla HQ out of California precisely because he couldn't get the local or state government to play ball (a California politician publicly Tweeted "F*ck Elon Musk"--hardly "rolling onto their backs"). Moreover, if you can't depend on governments to defy Musk and require regulatory oversight of FSD, how are you going to depend on them to outlaw FSD altogether?

Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#175

Post by amanaplanacanal »

ajmurmann wrote: post #136
karaterobot wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would anybody ever use it then? If you have to monitor it and it does a bad job (in situations documented in that video), what is the value? I recognize that it does better in other situations, like open highways, but if you have to keep your hands on the wheel anyway, what is the benefit to the driver compared to older technology like assisted cruise control?

I wonder how this compares to more limited abilities like lane-keeping. I did a few 10hr drives between Oregon and California during the pandemic and the lane-keeping made this easier similarly to cruise control. I still has to watch it all the time, but it somehow made it more relaxed.

More relaxed might make for a happier driver, but I’m not sure it makes for a safer driver.

Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#176

Post by jondwillis »

CultMember009 wrote: post #166
jondwillis wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As one of the “rich Tesla fanboys” you describe, no, probably it should not be legal. That being said, it has made me re-realize that humans are really terrible drivers as well, myself included, just less terrible on average, currently.

I respect your honesty and encourage you to try some remedial driving lessons to avoid being a “really terrible driver.” It can save your life and others also.

I'm a great driver on a relative basis. The average is just that terrible.

Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#177

Post by throwaway2016a »

johnsimer wrote: post #162
dylan604 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone that used to live 45 minutes outside of town, I'd kind of be okay with allowing the car to drive the monotonous highway bits and then taking over manual control for the city bits of driving.

Autopilot already does that very well and has for a few years and comes for free with each Tesla. you don’t need to pay the $12k FSD package for that

Yeah, agreed. Enhances Autopilot does very well on the highway.

Though FSD does navigate onramps and off ramps better than autopilot did (I don't know how autopilot works now since I'm on FSD beta now).

With that said, though, I don't think you can buy just autopilot anymore.

My other car is a Volvo and using Adaptive Cruise Control with Lane Keep Assist is scary as heck, any more than slight turn in the highway and you have to correct to avoid leaving your lane. Tesla on the other hand can change lanes, and has no issues with even the most extreme turns in the highway. But off the highway FSD is definitely more stressful than just manually driving while it's in beta.

Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#178

Post by throwaway2016a »

si1entstill wrote: post #113
throwaway2016a wrote: post #39

The driver probably has it in "assertive" mode. Outside of assertive mode it is actually annoyingly conservative. So much so that I often take manual control at turns to avoid impatient drivers honking at me as it inches through the intersection. With that said, I hate driving in Boston, so much so whenever I go there I park outside the city and take the T (subway) the rest of the way. I would not turn on FSD in Bost…

I've no experience with a Tesla, but Boston is a particularly unforgiving driving environment. I find it less stressful driving in NYC.

I don't know what it is about Boston... maybe it's the pedestrians that don't check for traffic at all, or the taxis that split lanes, or maybe the five way intersections, or maybe the construction, or the tunnels and overpasses, or the fact the roads were laid out for horses and have absolutely no rhyme or reason most of the time... the list is long :P

Never driven in NYC, though I have walked through it as a pedestrian... it seems easier to deal with.

Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#179

Post by klyrs »

nexuist wrote: post #9
whynotkeithberg wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure most of you do....

Seriously, Tesla's autopilot rolls through stop signs because everyone does. How many people are going to get rear ended because every Tesla stops at a stop sign now? It feels like enforcing this behavior is more dangerous than letting it slide. It's the same with following the speed limit on roads where everyone speeds. Nobody is going to like self driving cars if they're going 25 on a road where everyone goes 40, w…

> How many people are going to get rear ended because every Tesla stops at a stop sign now?

Probably not many, and they'll mostly be low-speed. And the person who follows to closely and doesn't brake at stop lights is 100% at fault in that situation. Why blame Tesla for following the law? If you think the law is stupid, get the vote out and change it.

I once got pulled over for driving 5 over the limit. There was a squadron of tens of motorcycle cops who pulled everybody over. I challenged the ticket in court, complaining that one cannot drive the speed limit on that road without other drivers getting aggro, and that I was driving with the flow of traffic. The judge did not care. He said it's my responsibility to follow the law. So, good luck.

Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#180

Post by beeboop »

hughrr wrote: post #131
beeboop wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

anti Musk and anti Tesla astroturfing is a tale as old as time. A lot of it has always been rooted in people with financial interests in Tesla doing poorly I always flag these topics. The comments are nearly verbatim identical to the last 20 times FSD gets posted and nothing about the conversation is interesting

aka the problems are the same as they were. That’s a good metric for the lack of progress on the issues.

aka there's been a lot of progress and people still like to say there hasn't been and that elon should be sued for fraud because it isn't a perfect self driving machine yet
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