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Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

boston.com

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Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#91

Post by simion314 »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #67
simion314 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should this be legal? Some rich Tesla fanboy beta testing buggy software with a misleading name of autopilot or FSD ont he streets where your children walk? I am not aware of such laws but they shoudl exist, otherwise other companies can start alpha testing with random fanboys.

If it's safer on balance than average drivers (for some reasonable definition of "safer"), I think the answer is "yes". Do you want to expose your children to unnecessary risk? I don't posit that it is safer or that it should be legal, but we should frame the conversation in terms of actual safety metrics and not cherry-picked incidents. Of course, our media isn't equipped to facilitate these kinds of nuanced convers…

But HOW do we know is safer? We should not assume is safer by default and I see many problems with Tesla fanboys numbers

1 the count for the times drivers intervene to prevent a crash are secret, or are not counted at a crash.

2 I don't want on my village/city some american car that is safer then the american driver that included 16 year old drunk teens and people that don't even have to pass exams and medical tests. The self driving car should be compared with healthy drivers , I don't care that some state/country is incapable of stopping speeding or drunk driving.

3 updating this cars should invalidate previous approvals, as a software developer I know well how updates include bugs not only features.

Anyway I am against companies deciding from themselves how is a capable alphya testers and how they should run alpha tests.

If we want real metrics then incidents liek the ones in the video should be counted against Tesla, is MALICIOUS to show a stats of average driver using an average car versus an expensive car with a combo of human+computer and assign the good to the computer and ignore the many times the human had to save the computer ass. Fuck shit statistics and shit companies and fanboys using them. At best you can prove the computer might be a decent copilot versus no copilot.

Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#92

Post by jacquesm »

npace12 wrote: post #74
simion314 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should this be legal? Some rich Tesla fanboy beta testing buggy software with a misleading name of autopilot or FSD ont he streets where your children walk? I am not aware of such laws but they shoudl exist, otherwise other companies can start alpha testing with random fanboys.

I drive a tesla with FSD in an urban area and based on what I've seen it do, I am 1000x more scared of some rich boy driving his new lambo around hitting a pedestrian than my Tesla while on FSD even with noone in it (if that were possible)

Yes, but how does it compare to a normal responsible driver? Because that is the use case here, not the idiot with an exotic they can't handle.

Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#93

Post by apeace »

matsemann wrote: post #36
tsunamifury wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure there are bad drivers but in SF bad cyclists are a matter of routine. Blowing stop signs, red lights at full speed, weaving through cross traffic and riding on pedestrian sidewalks at speed are not regular occurrences for car drivers. Sure I want a full biking city and what not but the cyclists here are such a bad testimony to everyone else that it starts this strong negativity. Being jerks to the pedestrians an…

You're kinda proving my point, though, by your sweeping generalizations... Why do the cars get a pass for all bad stuff they cause?

If SF is anything like NYC, GP is right to make sweeping generalizations.

Cyclists do not follow the rules of the road here. They simply don't. In particular, they go through red lights as if they don't exist. As a pedestrian crossing a crosswalk -- with the cross signal -- you still need to look left and right for bicycles. I don't see cars running red lights too often, but bicycles are a constant threat. And they are silent and sometimes hard to see.

To be fair, this report[1] from 2018 shows the disparity in injuries caused by bicycles (134) versus cars (2,272). With that in mind, it doesn't make sense for me to be complaining about the bicycles.

At the same time, there's a reason these statistics don't match my experience and the experience of many others. I dodge bicycles every day and don't get injured, probably because they're relatively easy to dodge most of the time. I've been hit by a bicycle twice but never reported it because I wasn't injured enough to seek medical care. I've never had to dodge a car.

If you stand on any corner in NYC, you will see cyclists running red lights several times within an hour. You won't see cars doing it as often.

So, I think this issue would be solved if the majority of cyclists followed the rules of the road like the majority of drivers do. Until then, people like me are going to keep complaining, despite the apparent damages not being as severe as what cars cause.

[1] https://www1.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/bicycle-crash-da...

Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#94

Post by mrtranscendence »

matsemann wrote: post #33
stronglikedan wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Weird how that works. Because it doesn't. None of that is true, except in maybe some isolated incidences. Those incidences just happen to be etched in your memory, because you took them personally. It's not enough of a norm for your sweeping generalization to hold water.

Pft, go into any discussion on twitter/reddit/fb/newssite about some traffic incident. In all cases where a car is involved, it's likely "that driver is stupid" (or even excuses made for the driver, since most commenters see themselves in their shoes), but if a cyclist is involved the comments are full of vitriol against all cyclists.

Anecdotally, I've encountered more complaints from cyclists that they're all being painted with the same brush, than I have incidents in which all cyclists are painted with the same brush. Could just be where I hang out, though.

Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#95

Post by jacquesm »

krnlpnc wrote: post #70

These days when I'm near a Tesla on the road I use the same caution as if driving near an obviously drunk driver. Give them lots of space and prepare for them to act unpredictably.

That's interesting: this would if enough people do it skew Teslas towards being very safe vehicles!

Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#96

Post by rmbyrro »

bagels wrote: post #78

This whole situation fascinates me. At what point do people start suing Tesla for fraud? There is no evidence that Musk's claims about FSD will ever be true.

I'm confused:

> "evidence that [...] will be true"

Apart from provably recurring events already observed (e.g. Sun/Moon position in the sky), how can one present evidence for the future?

And what kind of society start suing people for fraud for failing to provide evidence for the future?

Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#97

Post by notreallyserio »

karaterobot wrote: post #69
npace12 wrote: post #40

Just to clarify the current process of being able to use the Tesla FSD beta because I've seen a lot of comments by people thinking Tesla released this and cars are now just driving around without a human driver: 1. pay $12k or $200/mo 2. Opt-in for beta. Drive over 100-200 miles and maintain a 98%+ "safety score" until you're selected (could be months) 3. Manually activate FSD each time you want to use it 4. Keep han…

Why would anybody ever use it then? If you have to monitor it and it does a bad job (in situations documented in that video), what is the value? I recognize that it does better in other situations, like open highways, but if you have to keep your hands on the wheel anyway, what is the benefit to the driver compared to older technology like assisted cruise control?

It's only for as long as the software is in beta testing (if we can really call it beta).

Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#98

Post by 6510 »

I keep comparing it to rails. Streetcars solved many of the self driving problems. Its not to hate on self driving cars but its cool to look back how they accomplished all that with the tools of the time. Imagine how batteries or a flywheel could bridge large gaps in overhead cables. If you run them on tax money and build enough lines I imagine convenience could be superior to cars.

Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#99

Post by deegles »

I'm surprised other self driving car companies haven't tried to file a lawsuit to get Tesla FSD more regulated. If a Tesla FSD ends up in a(nother) notable accident, the ensuing media and regulation backlash will set back the whole industry by years.

As it stands today, I wouldn't let someone driving activate FSD, much less use it myself.

Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#100

Post by paxys »

tiborsaas wrote: post #86
hughrr wrote: post #19

I think full self driving is the same distance away as cold fusion.

Which law of nature self driving AI contradicts?

We know enough about the physical laws of nature that we can write them down and figure out where the limits of tech/automation are.

We know nothing about how the human brain works. True artificial intelligence/AGI (which is needed for level 5 self driving) is a pipe dream.

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