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Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

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Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#221

Post by dev_tty01 »

moritonal wrote: post #126
dessant wrote: post #86

Refusing service when the user does not consent to non-essential data sharing is illegal in the EU, and it also breaches Google Play's developer agreement. WiFi scanning is not essential to navigate with an app, and the least they could do to follow the law is to gracefully degrade the service if the user does not consent to share data about nearby devices, such as disabling traffic predictions. Of course Google's la…

Can't believe I'm on this side of the debate, but at what point are we asking too much for free? Google provide Maps for free to an incredible accuracy and value. Unlike Apple, the user is welcome to use any other app, and yet chooses to use Google Maps. You could maybe argue that Google Maps is part of a package you bought the phone for, but realistically I think the solution is Google are just open about the use of…

If the business model Google themselves created will somehow fail if we don't continue to allow them to suck more and more private data out of us then so be it. They will have to change their business model. I am not interested in changing to accommodate them.

By the way, there is nothing free here. All of those advertising dollars come out of our pockets via increased products costs.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#222

Post by tinus_hn »

zepto wrote: post #199
dsl wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> non-essential data sharing But it is essential. Google (and Apple) maps provide lane specific navigation directions, which are really only possible with assisted GPS. In theory GPS has the accuracy, but remember you are in a big metal box filled with electrical wires. Not to mention other applications like isle specific navigation within stores, which is made possible by bluetooth beacons. Heck, we are on the verge…

Not correct. Wifi is not used to boost precision at speed. That is generally done via dead reckoning using the gyroscope and accelerometer. Wifi helps with bootstrapping a coarse location quickly before satellites can be acquired, and with indoor positioning.

And (along with cellular data) with acquiring the almanac data via the Internet instead of waiting for up to 30 minutes for the satellites to broadcast it.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#223

Post by guyzero »

xg15 wrote: post #190
dsl wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> non-essential data sharing But it is essential. Google (and Apple) maps provide lane specific navigation directions, which are really only possible with assisted GPS. In theory GPS has the accuracy, but remember you are in a big metal box filled with electrical wires. Not to mention other applications like isle specific navigation within stores, which is made possible by bluetooth beacons. Heck, we are on the verge…

Lane specific driving directions? How many Wifi access points and Bluetooth beacons is Google expecting to find on the highway while moving at 70mph?

This may be Waze beacons which use bluetooth to help position the user when they're going through tunnels, where there is no GPS coverage.

https://support.google.com/waze/partners/answer/9416071?hl=e...

https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/29/18202359/waze-beacons-nyc...

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#224

Post by mhardcastle »

philsnow wrote: post #215

Not related to Google maps, but just today I got tired of the Amazon app sending me "you might like this deal" notifications and dug into whether it's possible to disable them. You can , but if you do, Amazon will no longer send Amazon "Smile" micro-donations to whatever charity you've selected: https://i.imgur.com/wNAkUAT.jpeg . I can't say that this is underhanded, but it does cast into sharp relief the fact that A…

Shopping at Amazon has become such a blatantly user-hostile experience. More than any company I've dealt with in recent memory, they seem to tolerate just about any unethical behavior - allowing fake product reviews, facilitating sale of counterfeit merchandise, and evidently withholding charitable donations if you don't allow them to pester you via your own device.

It's to the point that shopping at Amazon feels dirty to me. Why support a company that's doing everything it can to transfer your well-being to Jeff Bezos?

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#225

Post by SllX »

nobody9999 wrote: post #112
dmje wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had one on our street called FuckOffAndGetYourOwn which I always liked

>We had one on our street called FuckOffAndGetYourOwn which I always liked There was an SSID in my building called "Free Palestine." A couple years later, someone created another one called "The Shin Bet."[0] I found that to be both disturbing and amusing. After the Muslim grad students on the third floor moved back to Australia, "Free Palestine" disappeared, and when the orthodox Jews moved out of the fourth floor,…

Nobody ever did answer my question, but your comment makes me glad I asked. :)

Thanks!

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#226

Post by jmkb »

uneekname wrote: post #128
app4soft wrote: post #85

> I immediately installed Organic Maps, and I'm sure there are loads of others as an option. Here are OSM -based maps applications for Android .[0,1] Not all OSM-based Android apps listed on OpenStreetMap Wiki, so check out also maps apps in various F-Droid repos.[2] Also here are maps apps for Symbian[3,4] and Maemo[5]. For other platforms there are also a lot of other apps.[6] [0] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wik…

Does anyone have a favorite that has worked well for them?

For hiking and biking, I like Windy Maps. It shows terrain contours and highlights foot and bike trail relations, and has an easy-to-use GPS track recorder. You can also ask for future weather forecasts along a navigation route, which is pretty keen if you're traveling long distances. Windy Maps does have a driving navigation mode, but I find that the extra map details that are handy for outdoors activities crowd the map too much for easy reference when driving, especially in dense areas.

For general map browsing, I tend to use Organic Maps. It does a better job rendering urban environments, and even shows primitive 3D buildings when OSM has the data. It's decent as a driving GPS.

Debatably, the best OSM-powered mobile app is OsmAnd, which is a more powerful application with the downsides that come with that -- slow, lots of settings, crowded UI. The killer features IMO are: 1) it's the only one (best I know) that allows users to zoom extremely close, which is vital to see all POIs in dense areas and also helpful to see details of parks and trails 2) it's the only one (best I know) that can interface with Android Auto enabled vehicles. (There's an iOS version of OsmAnd but I've never used it since it requires a subscription for map updates.)

There are particular use cases (eg hiking) when one of these OSM-powered apps will be an adequate or even superior replacement for Google Maps. These use cases are the exception. Google Maps has its own two killer features: 1) realtime traffic for car navigation 2) sophisticated public transit routing, again with realtime data integration.

All 3 of the above apps will attempt public transit routing, but I'd never use them. They don't comprehend train schedules, much less realtime data. They don't handle bus directions at all, though this might be down to the state of the OSM data in the locations I've tried them -- bus route relations are difficult to create and maintain in OSM, and easy to break.

I'm an OSM fanatic myself, so it's saddening not to be able to wholeheartedly endorse any of the current slate of apps. The good news is that the available apps have never been better and continue to improve. Sometime soonish it might be merely a minor inconvenience to de-google your mapping life. (Apple Maps is also pretty good with realtime traffic and public transit routing, if that's an option.)

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#227

Post by jlg23 »

Nextgrid wrote: post #24
jlg23 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HERE WeGo[0] works remarkably well here in the north of Africa, much better than google maps or TomTom. [0] https://wego.here.com/

Watch out, Here Maps has the Facebook SDK malware embedded in it that will call home to Zuck on every app launch (at least) and send a device fingerprint and persistent identifier.

Thanks for the pointer! Unfortunately FB is free on the major mobile operators and thus basically mandatory for communication, so my phone calls "home to Zuck" regularly anyways :/

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#228

Post by LoveGracePeace »

app4soft wrote: post #181
LoveGracePeace wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OsmAnd+ has worked great for us for several years.

I use OsmAnd~ 4.0.x[0], F-Droid packges of OsmAnd+, under Android 5.x for three years already for bike journeys. Sadly, since OsmAnd+ 4.1.x it requires Android 6+ to work. Looking inside changelog of OsmAnd+ I really can't understand why Android 5.x support was dropped. Actually I can't decide where to move next after OsmAnd: Organic Maps[1], Pocket Maps[2] or something else. Also from-time-to-time tested Navit[3], b…

"Sadly, since OsmAnd+ 4.1.x it requires Android 6+ to work."

I mean, that's a pretty old version of Android.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#229

Post by Ocha »

tinus_hn wrote: post #222
zepto wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not correct. Wifi is not used to boost precision at speed. That is generally done via dead reckoning using the gyroscope and accelerometer. Wifi helps with bootstrapping a coarse location quickly before satellites can be acquired, and with indoor positioning.

And (along with cellular data) with acquiring the almanac data via the Internet instead of waiting for up to 30 minutes for the satellites to broadcast it.

Last time I checked it took 12.5 minutes for full almanac broadcast... Did something change?

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#230

Post by abandonliberty »

philsnow wrote: post #215

Not related to Google maps, but just today I got tired of the Amazon app sending me "you might like this deal" notifications and dug into whether it's possible to disable them. You can , but if you do, Amazon will no longer send Amazon "Smile" micro-donations to whatever charity you've selected: https://i.imgur.com/wNAkUAT.jpeg . I can't say that this is underhanded, but it does cast into sharp relief the fact that A…

If it makes you feel any better, it's a publicly traded company. Legally, everything it does must generate shareholder value.

Smile is really just a way to get additional value from donations large companies have to make anyway for lobbying and tax purposes.

They would've happened anyway, but you get to direct it. Maybe they can sell the data it generates to identify areas or people more likely to donate to charity, and sell that data to fund raising companies.

And maybe (new use case!) they can use it to reduce opt-outs of notifications, which carry associated value.

I can envision the notification product owner reaching out to the smile team with this new opportunity. "Hey, you have this cool feature, I really think it could help here!"

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