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Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#81

Post by jdiez17 »

While I'm not sure if this change to Google Maps has been or will be widely rolled out, you may want to look into what GrapheneOS is working on with their Google Play compatibility layer [1]. It basically lets people use Google's services inside Android's standard app sandbox. That means they don't get access to privileged system APIs and can only access what the user chooses. It can also be used without a Google account.

GrapheneOS is working on a way to redirect the Play services location APIs to an open source implementation of those APIs which uses standard Android location APIs [2]. It's expected to be available in an upcoming release [3].

[1] https://grapheneos.org/usage#sandboxed-google-play

[2] https://developer.android.com/reference/android/location/Loc...

[3] https://twitter.com/GrapheneOS/status/1486182874567122945

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#82

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

dmje wrote: post #70
SllX wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, has anyone ever been sued over their SSID?

We had one on our street called FuckOffAndGetYourOwn which I always liked

I've always been partial to ones named like "NSA Monitor 3AB9D4"

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#83

Post by voakbasda »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #67

I don't like this being forced on you, but who the hell cares about wifi/bt SSID sniffing? What's so bad about collecting it? You are literally broadcasting it yourself and on most devices you can't even turn broadcasting off anymore.

My access points are inaccessible to the public. You would have to trespass deep into my property. No one has any business knowing anything about my network or devices here.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#84

Post by vorpalhex »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #67

I don't like this being forced on you, but who the hell cares about wifi/bt SSID sniffing? What's so bad about collecting it? You are literally broadcasting it yourself and on most devices you can't even turn broadcasting off anymore.

I'd prefer the combo of ssid, password and location to not all be known to the same single party.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#85

Post by app4soft »

> I immediately installed Organic Maps, and I'm sure there are loads of others as an option.

Here are OSM-based maps applications for Android.[0,1]

Not all OSM-based Android apps listed on OpenStreetMap Wiki, so check out also maps apps in various F-Droid repos.[2]

Also here are maps apps for Symbian[3,4] and Maemo[5].

For other platforms there are also a lot of other apps.[6]

[0] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Android#OpenStreetMap_ap...

[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Android_ap...

[2] https://apt.izzysoft.de/fdroid/

[3] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Symbian

[4] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/S60Maps

[5] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Software/Maemo

[6] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Software

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#86

Post by dessant »

Refusing service when the user does not consent to non-essential data sharing is illegal in the EU, and it also breaches Google Play's developer agreement. WiFi scanning is not essential to navigate with an app, and the least they could do to follow the law is to gracefully degrade the service if the user does not consent to share data about nearby devices, such as disabling traffic predictions.

Of course Google's lawyers will argue that this data is in fact required for navigation, the same way some banks in the EU now claim "legitimate interest" when they send you a message about their credit card promotions with winnable prizes, after you've explicitly opted out from all marketing communications.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#87

Post by tetha »

notacoward wrote: post #50
can16358p wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a law regarding which names you can't use for hotspots/APs? Even if there is, I doubt anyone will go after that unless the "attacker" involves some serious crime with that combined. Attacking innocent people with rogue SSIDs would be definitely wrong, but if done only to trick Google it would be a fun experiment - and they deserve it (maybe not for this particular change but as a company in general).

It doesn't have to be a case they can win to be extremely troublesome for you (though they probably could win if their trademark is embedded in your code). Unless you can afford to make your own lawyers rich, it's a bit unwise to go "I dare you" to large US companies. Better to ship something less incriminating, and leave the spicier suggestions for anonymous comments on web forums.

Hm. If it's in your car, yeah.

Though if I put a thing like that in my window, you'd have to rummage through 20 - 50 flats to find the source of that SSID to identify the creator. With zero legal reason to search my flat over my neighbours flat and vice versa. And also, there is no actual interruption of radio services, so there is no reason to bring in more precise measuring equipment. And I might even have enough time to toss that pi off of the balcony if all else fails.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#88

Post by vgeek »

notacoward wrote: post #36
mcast wrote: post #19

Maybe someone should build a portable (FCC compliant?) device to put in your car that spoofs and rotates a bunch of 2.4/5Ghz SSIDs periodically to "trick" apps that mine wifi data with GPS location. Bonus points for bogus names like "Starbucks Wifi" or "McDonalds Free Wifi" in the middle of the highway. Even easier, just reverse engineer the API and send the SSIDs yourself.

> Bonus points for bogus names like "Starbucks Wifi" or "McDonalds Free Wifi" in the middle of the highway. I find no joy in saying it, but I bet that would get you some unwelcome attention - trademark infringement, defamation, tortious interference - from one of those companies. :(

Maybe change it up a bit? :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djI_ret3S9g

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#89

Post by ForHackernews »

jdiez17 wrote: post #81

While I'm not sure if this change to Google Maps has been or will be widely rolled out, you may want to look into what GrapheneOS is working on with their Google Play compatibility layer [1]. It basically lets people use Google's services inside Android's standard app sandbox. That means they don't get access to privileged system APIs and can only access what the user chooses. It can also be used without a Google acc…

> to an open source implementation of those APIs

Is this MicroG? https://microg.org/

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#90

Post by nobody9999 »

notacoward wrote: post #36
mcast wrote: post #19

Maybe someone should build a portable (FCC compliant?) device to put in your car that spoofs and rotates a bunch of 2.4/5Ghz SSIDs periodically to "trick" apps that mine wifi data with GPS location. Bonus points for bogus names like "Starbucks Wifi" or "McDonalds Free Wifi" in the middle of the highway. Even easier, just reverse engineer the API and send the SSIDs yourself.

> Bonus points for bogus names like "Starbucks Wifi" or "McDonalds Free Wifi" in the middle of the highway. I find no joy in saying it, but I bet that would get you some unwelcome attention - trademark infringement, defamation, tortious interference - from one of those companies. :(

>I find no joy in saying it, but I bet that would get you some unwelcome attention - trademark infringement, defamation, tortious interference - from one of those companies. :(

While that's a wonderfully dystopian view, I'd expect that wouldn't happen unless you attempted to use such SSIDs in a commercial context.

for your "wager" to be successful, I should expect to be sued over saying stuff like "Old McDonald had a quarter pounder Henway" or "Starbuck made the same inferior coffee for Ahab every day."

I'll await cease and desist letters from McDonald's and Starbucks.

According to the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office[0]:

   Trademark infringement is the unauthorized use of 
   a trademark or service mark on or in connection 
   with goods and/or services in a manner that is 
   likely to cause confusion, deception, or mistake 
   about the source of the goods and/or services.
Not sure how using a WiFi SSID or other statement that includes trademarked terms (especially those that have cultural roots separate from the trademarks) could be an infringement unless the source is actually selling or marketing a competing product.

[0] https://www.uspto.gov/page/about-trademark-infringement

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