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Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#61

Post by acomjean »

christkv wrote: post #18
acomjean wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, the user is getting a pretty amazing map/gps program. It it worth it? Are they completely upfront about the data they’re harvesting? You can opt out. Stand alone gps is still available. Open Street maps is an amazing open source program too. My car has a 2010 gps. It works. It’s not great but it’s gets you close. In some ways I miss my old Tom Tom. It had the mr. T voice yelling at me where to go.

I just bought the Tom Tom app and paid for the maps I need. One of their big deals is privacy protection as no data is collected

Forgot about the stand alone gps apps. And most phones have plenty of storage for those.

I would love an app that would feed the data back into open street map.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#62

Post by easrng »

causality0 wrote: post #54

I have regarded the entire Google Maps dev team with utter contempt since they first combined maps and navigation into one app, thereby preventing you from using both at the same time. At this point I'd rather use a paper map then let Google wardrive using my phone 24 hours a day.

If you use the Android Go version the maps and navigation are separate.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#63

Post by TaylorAlexander »

notacoward wrote: post #36
mcast wrote: post #19

Maybe someone should build a portable (FCC compliant?) device to put in your car that spoofs and rotates a bunch of 2.4/5Ghz SSIDs periodically to "trick" apps that mine wifi data with GPS location. Bonus points for bogus names like "Starbucks Wifi" or "McDonalds Free Wifi" in the middle of the highway. Even easier, just reverse engineer the API and send the SSIDs yourself.

> Bonus points for bogus names like "Starbucks Wifi" or "McDonalds Free Wifi" in the middle of the highway. I find no joy in saying it, but I bet that would get you some unwelcome attention - trademark infringement, defamation, tortious interference - from one of those companies. :(

Seems like so few people would a actually do this they would fly under the radar, though it’s good to be aware of potential problems.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#64

Post by jonas21 »

M4v3R wrote: post #60
jonas21 wrote: post #53

Are you sure they're not doing this to get approximate location for use with A-GPS? Sure, GPS will work without it, but your time to first fix is going to be much longer, and your phone will have no idea where you are while you're waiting for that fix. There's a good overview of A-GPS in module 5 here [1]. This is just how people expect GPS to work on modern mobile phones, to the point where they'd probably consider…

AGPS works with cellular, Wi-Fi is not required. So no, it’s not only for this reason.

As I understand it, the OP is trying to keep all non-GPS location sources disabled.

> I've had different things disabled. Wifi scanning. Bluetooth. Cell location data. Etc. Always with one single goal -- GPS only for location.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#65

Post by notacoward »

can16358p wrote: post #59
notacoward wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't have to be a case they can win to be extremely troublesome for you (though they probably could win if their trademark is embedded in your code). Unless you can afford to make your own lawyers rich, it's a bit unwise to go "I dare you" to large US companies. Better to ship something less incriminating, and leave the spicier suggestions for anonymous comments on web forums.

Just another idea popped. What if your code doesn't include any bitstream that contains "Starbucks" but has some ML driven mechanism of passively listening to Wifis around the city, noting them and using those names dynamically? Since Starbucks McDonalds etc would (probably) be the highest quantity of signals found your code will be mimicking those names without having a single bit in the code. What would be the lega…

IANAL (maybe one will weigh in) but that sounds a lot safer to me.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#66

Post by babypuncher »

Schiendelman wrote: post #15
bkovacev wrote: post #3

What are some reliable alternatives for both iOS and Android? I'm unsure how are Apple Maps, but they were hideous a while back for Eastern Europe at least.

There are still places in the world where Apple Maps isn't great, but for 90% of people they're now as good for navigation, if not better (since they've built a data gathering operation). Last year I used Apple Maps for a 34,000 mile road trip. No significant issues.

I switched to Apple Maps a couple years ago and was also pleasantly surprised how much it has improved.

In the browser, you can effectively get Apple Maps through DuckDuckGo, as their map service is built on it. There is no meaningful way to get Apple Maps navigation on Android though, and I predict it will stay that way unless Apple decides to turn it into a paid service or changes their stance on selling user data.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#68

Post by solox3 »

beermonster wrote: post #31

So how about OsmAnd[0] ? Supports fully offline mobile navigation. [0] https://osmand.net/

I wish OsmAnd all the best, but ever since the app was created, its map rendering performance has been stuck in the 2010s, no matter how much faster our devices have gotten since then.

There is justification for it for sure (see https://github.com/osmandapp/OsmAnd/issues?q=is%3Aissue+slow... for a few), and I love OSM out of principle, but as a product, it will remain my last resort until the user experience is tolerable.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#69

Post by DrBoring »

mcast wrote: post #19

Maybe someone should build a portable (FCC compliant?) device to put in your car that spoofs and rotates a bunch of 2.4/5Ghz SSIDs periodically to "trick" apps that mine wifi data with GPS location. Bonus points for bogus names like "Starbucks Wifi" or "McDonalds Free Wifi" in the middle of the highway. Even easier, just reverse engineer the API and send the SSIDs yourself.

> Bonus points for bogus names like "Starbucks Wifi" or "McDonalds Free Wifi" in the middle of the highway.

Is the goal to make Google Maps publish a Starbucks/McDonalds in the middle of the highway? I can't imagine they would use the SSID as a source for building location.

Re: Google Maps now requires WiFi scanning to use navigation

#70

Post by dmje »

SllX wrote: post #41
notacoward wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bonus points for bogus names like "Starbucks Wifi" or "McDonalds Free Wifi" in the middle of the highway. I find no joy in saying it, but I bet that would get you some unwelcome attention - trademark infringement, defamation, tortious interference - from one of those companies. :(

Out of curiosity, has anyone ever been sued over their SSID?

We had one on our street called FuckOffAndGetYourOwn which I always liked
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