No post body was provided.
My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi
531–540 of 597 posts
Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi
#532No post body was provided.
Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi
#533Earlier quoted context omitted.
> what is the point of an internet connected dishwasher? The purpose of IOT is pretty clear, although it is also pretty broad. It's a win-win for the manufacturer, but probably a ticking time bomb for the customer. The Good: 1. Reduce production costs by converting electronic control to digital control with COTS chips. 2. Reduce development costs by reducing the cost of correcting bug-free software. The system requir…
None of those 'good' are very good, or good at all. The buttons on the front are a few cents. On a $1000 appliance, that benefits only the manufacturer (if even them). Being able to ship buggy software, again a benefit to the manufacturer. More complex controls for more complex cycles etc? Questionable if this kind of fiddling on e.g. a dishwasher is of any use. Collecting data - because we want to spend Saturday in…
"It doesn't help me personally immediately right now," is certainly a take you could have, sure.
Don't get me wrong. I'm extremely skeptical about IoT. I'm an experienced sysadmin, and that means I hate technology. There is a massive legislative need to protect the public from the damage these devices could do to customer rights, and the legislatures we've had for almost as long as I can remember are about as interested in filling that need as they were interested in protecting the worker and the right to unionize in the 19th century. Which is to say, it's more likely that the President will send the Army in to crack skulls than they'd pass a bill to do something right.
But the Digital Revolution doesn't just mean FAANG. It also means the Third Industrial Revolution. That's been going on for 35+ years. It's not new, and it's not going away. IoT will happen because it's simply too good for manufacturing not to do it even if they can't monetize their customers' data. IoT can provide real improvements just like networking computers has. There are unknown gains in efficiency, productivity, and quality of life to be gained here. The Information Age isn't NFTs and tracking cookies all the way down.
> More complex controls for more complex cycles etc? Questionable if this kind of fiddling on e.g. a dishwasher is of any use.
It's just an example, man. I'm not a dishwasher engineer. I don't know what they need to do, let alone to what they are capable of or what they could be used for but aren't because of the current structure.
It's not just about dishwashers either. All modern appliances are digital. What can you make any appliance in your home do with continuous monitoring and re-programmability?
Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi
#534As dystopian as things can get.
Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi
#535Earlier quoted context omitted.
There have been improvements in the amount of water used since mine was made.
Water consumption I can imagine, but power consumption? And by how much anyway? Improvements in these appliances always feel a little like those percentages on dishwashing liquid. If I would multiple all the improvements since 1990 I think one drop of detergent will be enough for the rest of my life.
I recon decreased energy consumption would be achieved by decreased water consumption, since less water needs heating.
Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi
#536Looks like a Miele. That menu can be exited (the image where it says "Software Update", the tiny bit on the right... that's a scroll bar of multiple options including the ability to exit this menu), but it does imply that the dishwasher is already connected to Wi-Fi and that it has determined that there is an update available. There are few times that a dishwasher is interacted with, if not when you go into the menu…
I am still completely mystified by why it's useful to be able to check your dishwasher salt or rinse aid on a phone.
When it's empty, you still have to actually fill it, so if the LED comes on just fill the tank at some point in the next 10 or so cycles and it'll do.
And when old bag or bottle is empty, buy salt on one of the next 10 or so supermarket trips. The dishwasher will not need more any time soon after a refill.
Maybe I'm missing a crucial piece of modern life, but it feels like yet more stats porn to go with all the metrics vomited into life by fitness trackers and apparently every piece of software.
Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi
#537Earlier quoted context omitted.
Miele's user interface isn't that great. I owned a Miele laundry machine. After you press "start" there is no way you can undo that. This sucks. Even missiles have an "unlaunch" feature.
With the current WiFi connected Miele laundry machines you can use the app to pause and add more laundry.
With my washing machine, I press the button. It'll say "no", drain down the drum so the water doesn't fall out when the door opens, then say "yes" and the door unlocks.
Apps used: 0.
Would be useful if the machine could select and load the washing itself from the basket, I'd use that app.
Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi
#538Earlier quoted context omitted.
Updates improve wash efficiency, etc. Not just security updates. Maybe a new cleaning powder comes with a new algo. Maybe there's a better dosing for certain levels of water hardness. But the gist is that it updates the whole module. I'm fine with this, Miele are like Bosch in that they look after the hardware they sell for decades rather than considering it deprecated the day it leaves a shop floor.
Every dishwasher I've ever used, your best bet is to put everything on full blast, least efficient settings. Otherwise the dishes get "almost" clean. I always imagine the engineers standing around patting themselves on the back after testing, and marveling how their ideas worked so well most of the dishes got clean. The dishes all need to be totally clean, every time, or it's useless to me.
My Bosch gets everything sparkling every time on the eco mode (50 degrees, but takes nearly 4 hours).
The only time it ever fails is when something blocks a rotor and half a tray doesn't get any water on the underside.
But I don't think spraying more, hotter water at the clean half will help that.
Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi
#539Earlier quoted context omitted.
Does not match my experience. I have a fairly regular Bosch dishwasher and use the ECO mode almost exclusively without any issues.
Same experience here. This can’t be right though. Surely we are the exceptions and there really are idiotic committees forcing manufacturers to include eco settings that don’t work - rather than the other explanation of some dishwashers being crap?
My Mum has a Hotpoint because she skimped on it during a kitchen refit. It's complete crap compared to a mid-tier Bosch: the cleaning is worse, the tablet often gets stuck in the tray, and it doesn't dry properly.
That said, even the Bosch needed a new heat pump after 3 years which was an adventure in unreasonably complex disassembly.
Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi
#540Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ehh... this is more like "people don't want software on their Dishwasher" rather than "people want free software on their dishwasher"
He foresaw way back in the 80-90s that corporations are going to put software on their dishwasher anyway irrespective of what people want. If his idealistic goals were to be realized by now, at least they would have full control over it.
Sure, but we're talking single-digit percentages of people who ever interface with this stuff directly. We've had full(ish) control over desktop computer operating systems for decades and 2% of people use desktop linux. Google built ChromeOS on linux and started selling laptops loaded with their proprietary services, and it eclipsed desktop linux in a couple years.
Unfortunately if his goals came to fruition the vast majority of people would be in the same place. I'm not sure what the answer is, but it seems like free software is only a small piece of it.