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Please make a dumb car

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Re: Please make a dumb car

#351

Post by Vrondi »

MisterTea wrote: post #273
stillsut wrote: post #179

I went car shopping this year in the new market and found that that if you want more a "dumb" car (UX occurs primarily outside of a touchscreen, no internet, no geolocation) you lose all potential for any nice non-smart features. So no heated/powered seats, no power windows, the material of the interior is refurbished from a spirit airlines airplane, etc. I think manufacturers are hoping that certain aspects of the m…

> I wonder how well my car will age when miscellaneous sensor all over the car start failing. That's just it, the tech is making the cars less reliable. Will all of these bespoke parts be available in 10, 15, 20 years? I would hate to have to dispose of a working car because the dead now obsolete chip on the bespoke LCD dash module shaped like the cars dashboard is no longer in production. I had cars who's odometers…

Already, around 5 years ago, I had a small repair (tranny fluid filler tube replacement) done at a transmission shop. When I arrived, I walked in to hear the owner cursing Ford, because the part required for a 10-year-old Mustang was no longer made by Ford, but also not yet made by any aftermarket. The shop had to custom-fabricate the part themselves.

This will only get worse. Look at how many smartphones don't get security patches after 2 years.

Re: Please make a dumb car

#352

Post by throwaway_4ever »

esalman wrote: post #134
tsujp wrote: post #41

One thing I was flabbergasted at recently was Tesla offering, and the government allowing, regular drivers to use a yoke steering wheel like F1 drivers. Not only is it harder for the average person to handle but their firmware hadn't accounted for the fact that if you steer fully left or right the yoke is upside down and if you try and indicate it ends up indicating on the wrong side. What is wrong with a wheel and f…

Tesla is basically the 2000s prius. It is cool now, but in near future won't be anymore.

You've got that backwards. Prius weren't cool all the way until 2014, around the time environmental status symbol transferred to EV's and the used Prius started becoming very economical. Certain half of the political spectrum wouldn't be caught dead in them before hand and every other Hollywood movie had a cringy joke lambasting or praising them. Now they're just seen as a reliable financially savvy vehicles, not very "cool", but more popular now that regular people would have no problem driving them.

Re: Please make a dumb car

#353

Post by JoeJonathan »

aembleton wrote: post #147

My 2008 Prius doesn't have Bluetooth and I have to use a dongle. Its one of the biggest issues I have with the car. The dongle needs power, which is fine - I've got it plugged into a USB socket but everytime I start up the car I have to switch it on; otherwise I've got no audio. When I stop the car, the dongle has a small battery so my podcast continues playing if I don't pause it - I then miss part of it. I rented a…

If you can, I strongly recommend spending $300-500 on a receiver with CarPlay/Android Auto support. The install kits are so good they often look like they're stock installations. I even was able to replace my cigarette lighter with a USB port, so there are no unsightly cables sticking out of my dash or anything.

Re: Please make a dumb car

#354

Post by i_am_proteus »

giantrobot wrote: post #317
loudthing wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US in May of 2018, a federal law went into effect saying all new cars require a backup camera. This means that there needs to be an LCD screen visible to the driver for the camera. This is sort of a slippery slope as far as feature creep. Now that you have this screen, aren't drivers going to expect to see something on it 99% of the time when they aren't backing up? Actually this leads me to realize why some a…

> In the US in May of 2018, a federal law went into effect saying all new cars require a backup camera. This law actually says that if a car can't meet a prescribed rear visibility threshold it needs a backup camera. Instead of make safer designs manufacturers just install cameras. But I don't disagree manufacturers are using screens as an excuse to add superfluous bullshit they'll then use for data mining. See USC 2…

note: 'proscribe' means to prohibit and 'prescribe' means to require

Re: Please make a dumb car

#355

Post by Vrondi »

rabuse wrote: post #215
jdhn wrote: post #200

One of the reasons that there's not really a "dumb" car anymore is that backup cameras are federally mandated. So you have a camera for backing up, and you need a way to display that. So auto manufacturers say "Hey, we have this screen, people are used to touchscreens due to their phone, and it makes manufacturing easier if we put everything on a screen as it means we can just put a flat piece of plastic where all th…

"Then we can charge them for our optional (mandatory, if you want even basic modern functionality, such as remote start) monthly/yearly subscription services! We'll call it Car+!"

You can add remote start to a basic vehicle as an aftermarket upgrade.

Re: Please make a dumb car

#356

Post by Johnny555 »

rcpt wrote: post #339
Johnny555 wrote: post #256

I don't mind having a smart car, in fact, I like most of the "smart" features - lane centering, adaptive cruise, emergency braking, TPMS, lane change cameras, auto headlights, auto wipers, etc. But I want buttons and knobs for everything I use while driving. I probably wouldn't pay extra for built-in navigation (it generally comes with other options that I do want), but I've found it useful a few times when I was out…

ACC and LKAS on our 2019 Honda is so awful I simply can't use it. When someone crosses 3 lanes in front of me ACC will hit the brakes hard to maintain the correct distance. It's jolting and scary. LKAS only sees about 80% of the lanes. Rather than just driving like normal which I'm experienced with I have to sit there paranoid that something will go wrong and I'll need to react to a surprise event. I don't know if it…

I love ACC in my 2020 accord (which is the same generation as your 2019). I've never had it hit the brakes hard enough to be jolting, even when a car changes into my lane.

The LKAS is hit and miss, like you said, unless the lines are very clearly visible, it can't stay in the lane. I wish it looked at the car ahead to help with lanekeeping. But it's never surprising when it loses sight of the lane markers (though it does tend to drift to the right at exits, but it doesn't make a sharp move). But even in its current state, LKAS is great for long freeway drives.

Re: Please make a dumb car

#357

Post by seanmcdirmid »

71a54xd wrote: post #347

Unfortunately the government is imminently planning on requiring "smart" features like a law enforcement lowjack for "hot cars"[0] and a remote "kill switch" [1]. Granted, I'd be more than okay building a ranch vehicle or purchasing an old car and deleting these features as willful non-compliance. [0] https://hothardware.com/news/bidens-infrastructure-bill-mand... (hot hardware is an oddly good source of electrical e…

See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29427068 for a discussion about that, from the top comment:

> This is a terrible description of what the law actually does. Let's shine some light on the FUD. The law, H.R. 3684 (as enrolled), defines an "advanced drunk and impaired driving prevention technology" as a system which can do /one/ of the following: 1. "passively monitor the performance of a driver... to accurately identify whether that driver may be impaired... and prevent or limit [car] operation if an impairment is detected."

2. "passively and accurately" detect whether someone's BAC exceeds the Federal limit, and prevent or limit car operation if it's detected.

3. Both.

This will apply only after the DOT finalizes a rule describing what all those things actually mean in terms of manufacture. The law requires that the Secretary publish this rule within the next three years, unless they think it can't be done, in which case they can push it out another three years. That rule must give car manufactures at least another two years to implement the requirement. It also gives the DOT an out to say that it can't be done, in which case in 2031, they need to write a report to Congress to say why it can't be done.

In software terms, this is a user story that was just submitted for development. It's Congress asking the executive branch to do some work, but not actually forcing them to do so.

(But in the far-right wing press, "request to explore tech that keeps drunk people from driving" becomes "bill will mandate kill switch!" because of the click bait sound of it)

Re: Please make a dumb car

#358

Post by grapescheesee »

greedo wrote: post #295
MisterTea wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder how well my car will age when miscellaneous sensor all over the car start failing. That's just it, the tech is making the cars less reliable. Will all of these bespoke parts be available in 10, 15, 20 years? I would hate to have to dispose of a working car because the dead now obsolete chip on the bespoke LCD dash module shaped like the cars dashboard is no longer in production. I had cars who's odometers…

Backup cameras are mandated in the US now, so that requires an LCD screen on the dash.

Am in the only one who turns and looks back, out the window?

I had 20 plus rental cars last year and very few had tech features I would ever pay for.

Lane assist with adaptive cruise are the only notable features for long drives. I did enjoy the red dash notification Toyota has. Totally caught me off guard the first time however, I tried out the ABS.

Re: Please make a dumb car

#359

Post by acheron »

fingerlocks wrote: post #272
stillsut wrote: post #179

I went car shopping this year in the new market and found that that if you want more a "dumb" car (UX occurs primarily outside of a touchscreen, no internet, no geolocation) you lose all potential for any nice non-smart features. So no heated/powered seats, no power windows, the material of the interior is refurbished from a spirit airlines airplane, etc. I think manufacturers are hoping that certain aspects of the m…

Did you look into Subaru? They are still using physical controls for all car functionality. You can get heated seats, heated steering, stereoscopic lane keep assist & adaptive cruise control, etc. There is a touch screen, but I only use it for Apple Car Play.

Sounds like this varies based on model and year? My 2020 Ascent is like this, with the touchscreen only for radio/CarPlay (and backup camera), though there is a physical volume knob (yikes, touchscreen volume control would be a nightmare). But I've heard other Subaru owners say more things are integrated. I'm not sure it's strictly increasing by model year either, maybe they added some and then went back to physical controls later in some models?

Anyway, yes, Subaru should be a possibility, but obviously research the specific model first.

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