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My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

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Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#511

Post by chillingeffect »

feoren wrote: post #439
fsflover wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly why Stallman invented free software: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-even-more-impor... .

Problem: People are writing bad software with bugs and dark patterns. Solution: Software development should be the only creative profession in the entire world with no legal protection on their work!? It's insane to me. Absolutely insane. Copyright is not immoral. Almost nobody in this thread would be able to make any money as a software engineer if software were not allowed to make money. And yes, I've heard the arg…

Nobody is shaming devs for making/wanting to make money. We're asserting rights to control the systems that are intimate with our lives as opposed to being hamstrung by fly-by-night operations.

Free software is not against allowing people to make money. In fact, their model is that people are paid to make changes and support the free software and those changes are shared. And it's still possible to make software and get paid without sharing it.

Free software in fact depends on legal protection.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#512

Post by chillingeffect »

dpark wrote: post #416
stragies wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of such remote-scheduling is in my view, is that e.g. when HA notices, that the machine has not run in 3 days, but is closed, then it can send a notification to my phone, with Buttons for "Go Now", and one for "Tonight, one hour after last movement detection". And I thought at least some dishwashers heated the water themselves, like my washing machine. At least the water-hardness value is nice to know, and…

> when HA notices, that the machine has not run in 3 days, but is closed, then it can send a notification to my phone But why? If I haven’t run it in three days, then I don’t need it to run. The only way this might be useful for me would be if HA could magically realize the dishwasher is full and I forgot to run it, but it’s not going to be able to do that. It can’t tell the difference been “I forgot” and “I don’t wa…

This[0] and this[1] are the ultimate dishwasher talks. From what I gather, European dishwashers heat the water, while American do not.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rBO8neWw04

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll6-eGDpimU

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#513

Post by avs733 »

taeric wrote: post #444
avs733 wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always laughed at this, until I became a parent, but am now utterly convinced that there are a lot of features out there that look stupid until you are a parent why does my fridge need to text me if the door is left open? that's ridiculous! Well yeah...but if your teenager leaves it open, as teenagers are won't to do, how would I know if I'm in an office in another part of the house? (hypothetical, I don't have tee…

Sloping to drain like that sounds interesting. I've often been curious why large locker room methods aren't used in houses. I'm assuming it is mainly aesthetics?

I would imagine speed/cost/aesthetics. The builders aren't going to think about long term repairability and few home owners would know to think about something like this or come up with a workable (and code compliant) solution.

We have had to be extremely diligent with our contractors because of the number of times/things they do where they just operate on the autopilot of what is typically done. Its human nature, but the norms in building homes to me are just wildly outdated. Wildly.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#514

Post by vel0city »

dtech wrote: post #182
mywacaday wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The electricity and water efficiency are likely terrible compared to a modern machine.

I'd be interested in seeing a comparison on this. Washing dishes is a pretty mechanically limited process. I can't imagine that much improvement has been made.

Better engineered sprayer jets, adding better sensors to determine water turbidity and other water metrics, additional sprayer arms (second-rack sprayer arms were pretty rare IME in the 90s, common today), automatic soap dispenser systems dispensing just the right amount of soap or rinse aid given on various water properties, etc.

Even today a super basic mechanical timer based washing machine probably won't work as well or as efficiently as a high end unit with various sensors and logic.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#515

Post by hedora »

mojzu wrote: post #455
prox wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but it’s so cool ? /s Seriously I don’t understand the need at all to have your kitchen be connected to wifi at all. Not everything needs to be quantified, unless you use measuring cups for cooking. Second I can’t trust manufacturers to rush something out the door to “fix it in post”

Consumers obviously see enough value in remote control for it to be added as a feature, I'm not sure putting the cat in the bag is a great solution at this point That said while I do disagree with the above consumers, I don't care about remote control but I would quite like remote status updates from various appliances (is the door locked, is the washing cycle finished, has the fridge been left open, etc.)

Do they? All our Internet-connectible kitchen junk has some fine print in the manual about how the appliance will spy on you to improve ad targeting.

I suspect the only value most consumers see in these features is lower retail pricing.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#516

Post by vel0city »

dpark wrote: post #416
stragies wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of such remote-scheduling is in my view, is that e.g. when HA notices, that the machine has not run in 3 days, but is closed, then it can send a notification to my phone, with Buttons for "Go Now", and one for "Tonight, one hour after last movement detection". And I thought at least some dishwashers heated the water themselves, like my washing machine. At least the water-hardness value is nice to know, and…

> when HA notices, that the machine has not run in 3 days, but is closed, then it can send a notification to my phone But why? If I haven’t run it in three days, then I don’t need it to run. The only way this might be useful for me would be if HA could magically realize the dishwasher is full and I forgot to run it, but it’s not going to be able to do that. It can’t tell the difference been “I forgot” and “I don’t wa…

Dishwashers and clothes washers will usually have some amount of heating capacity to them, as they will want to at least try and maintain a certain water temperature during their cycle. The units are usually a bit insulated, but overall the water is going to lose a good bit of temperature during the cycle as chances are your dishes and clothes are nowhere near the target water temperature.

So you use the hot water line so the water is in the ballpark of the proper temperature, then use the internal heating units to hit and maintain the target temperature.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#518

Post by dpark »

chillingeffect wrote: post #512
dpark wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when HA notices, that the machine has not run in 3 days, but is closed, then it can send a notification to my phone But why? If I haven’t run it in three days, then I don’t need it to run. The only way this might be useful for me would be if HA could magically realize the dishwasher is full and I forgot to run it, but it’s not going to be able to do that. It can’t tell the difference been “I forgot” and “I don’t wa…

This[0] and this[1] are the ultimate dishwasher talks. From what I gather, European dishwashers heat the water, while American do not. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rBO8neWw04 [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll6-eGDpimU

I am definitely not willing to watch over an hour of chatting about dishwashers right now. :) is there somewhere specific he discusses this? I didn’t see a relevant chapter marker on the second video and none were present on the first.

A quick search indicates that most (all?) dishwashers have a heater to bring the water up to the necessary level. But also that you should give them the hottest water you can from your plumbing for efficiency.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#519

Post by vel0city »

chaorace wrote: post #119
christophilus wrote: post #7

I can understand the appeal of most smart devices, but since a dishwasher can’t yet load and unload itself, what is the point of an internet connected dishwasher? You have to have physically loaded it. Why not just push the start button then?

Here's one idea: sensor-based washing. I doubt anyone is currently doing this, but the idea can at least hold water ( ba-dum-tss ). You'd keep the dumb maximum spray-area approach for the pre-wash & rinse cycles, but replace the main wash cycle with a "smart-nozzle" approach that uses a radar (or some other non-optical sensor) to detect surfaces and apply a directed spray. Theoretically, that would save on energy cos…

My washing machine detects how much stuff is on the various racks and will adjust its time running the sprayers for each rack based on how much stuff is there and the turbidity of the water (how dirty) it is for the given levels.

So if the top rack is pretty empty or just glasses which are mostly clean, while the bottom rack is full of pots with lots of grease, it will spend more time operating the sprayers on the bottom rack than the top rack.

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