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My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

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Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#401

Post by ff317 »

jancsika wrote: post #267
pmontra wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, it could also get functionality updates. For example they could upload a new totally different UX loved by the designers and that nobody else understands how to use ;-)

> To be fair, it could also get functionality updates This is an important point that owners[1] sometimes miss. For example, if the owner makes a deal to partner with the maker of a particular detergent tab, the owner could create a new feature that only works with those tabs and not regular powder detergent. 1: Owner: the person who owns the firmware being sent over WiFi.

Yeah but usually what happens is that no new development of that sort occurs during the (intentionally limited by cheaped-out hardware design) lifetime of the appliance. If they do push any updates, they'll either be to fix security problems (only if you're lucky enough that they get fixed at all), or they'll push some horrible software feature users didn't ask for which worsens their experience vs how it operated when purchased and brings new bugs. Appliance manufacturers are terrible at firmware/software. You get all the downsides and none of the upsides.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#402

Post by coding123 »

jacquesm wrote: post #376
Pasorrijer wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree on a lot of them. Miele however, my mother's last Miele dishwasher lasted 22 years and they were still selling spare parts up until the day she replaced it. That's pretty unheard of in today's day and age

But that's the Miele of 22 years ago that you are talking about. Not necessarily the one that exists today.

But if they were selling spare parts for models 22 years ago (assuming recently replaced) then that IS the Miele of today?

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#403

Post by EricE »

Aeolun wrote: post #258
fortran77 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a Miele speed oven that arrived with a major defect: Microwave worked, but heat modes didn't. They sent a repair crew and there was a missing wire harness in the circuitry. It never could have worked. My experience with "high end" appliances in general (Bosch, Miele, Wolf, Subzero) is that it's a tax on "rich people". They're not better than top-line LG, etc.

> They're not better than top-line LG, etc. Maybe, maybe not. But a lot of those companies haven’t existed for longer than my latest washer. You buy those brands because you know exactly what you get. Basically guaranteed performance for the next 10 years, and very likely after. I do wish they didn’t jump on the app bandwagon, but they really have no choice since the rabble wants it. I swear people will pick an appli…

"You buy those brands because you know exactly what you get."

No, you won't. Just because you had an appliance that lasted 20 years before doesn't mean you are going to get the same today (you aren't). Energy efficiency standards have affected all manufacturers. Complexity leads to unreliability over time - all manufacturers are affected. Some will still be better than the rest, but if you aren't prioritizing manufacturers who are repair friendly you are going to either be spending multiples of the original cost of your appliance over time, or just flat out replacing them more often.

Or just fix that 20 year old appliance you already have when it breaks (almost always the best answer vs. buying new - with just about anything!)

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#404

Post by amelius »

formerly_proven wrote: post #250
pmontra wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, it could also get functionality updates. For example they could upload a new totally different UX loved by the designers and that nobody else understands how to use ;-)

Miele (and BSH) is really good at industrial design in my experience so I'd be surprised if they'd do something like that. However, I also don't really see a particular reason why a dishwasher needs WiFi. Do people actually like... check on them and come running to unload it when it's done? I suppose for checking if it needs dishwasher salt or rinse aid it could make sense but ... eh

Miele's user interface isn't that great. I owned a Miele laundry machine. After you press "start" there is no way you can undo that. This sucks. Even missiles have an "unlaunch" feature.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#405

Post by gameswithgo »

It infuriates me that this sort of thing is the trend with devices like tvs and appliances. For now you can work around it by just never connecting them to your wifi. But I'm sure a day is coming when the device won't function until you do.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#406

Post by darkwater »

treesknees wrote: post #347
disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, that's how you're "supposed" to use them. Seriously, you too can save a bunch of electricity and wasted time by pre-washing stuff before putting it in the dishwasher. I do agree that it sounds like satire, though.

I have a Bosch dishwasher and in the manual it actually states not to pre-rinse the dishes before putting them into the dishwasher. Of course I rinse the bigger pieces of food off anyway because otherwise the filter will need to be cleaned more often (doesn't have a grinder/disposal), but it does also waste a ton of water, and energy heating that water, to pre-wash your dishes. I believe the real trick is not to over…

> I believe the real trick is not to overfill the machine with dishes, and ensure your dishes are arranged properly.

This. Filling a dishwasher is an art of binpacking in itself. I'm pretty satisfied by my Bosch one, unless it is just a1-2 cycle before asking for the cleaning cycle, 95% of the times everything come up perfectly clean, even with the "eco" program. When something comes out dirty (if everything was properly placed), usually it will nag you to clean the dishwasher on the next cycle or the other.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#407

Post by avs733 »

taeric wrote: post #330
badwolf wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone still has to be there in person to put the dishes in the dishwasher, add the detergents, and close it. All this seems to be doing is moving the next step "Pressing the start button" further away behind more unnecessary steps (Search app store for dishwasher app, download dishwasher app, create dishwasher app account, connect dishwasher to wifi/bluetooth and pair with diswasher app, press "start wash" on dishw…

The use cases given above are legit. Doing yard work, see the notice from machine that it is done, so I can go move to the next load. Or, close it, but not start in case I find a few extra items. None of that is necessary, sure. But, also isn't worth vitriol from the crowd that hates them.

I always laughed at this, until I became a parent, but am now utterly convinced that there are a lot of features out there that look stupid until you are a parent

why does my fridge need to text me if the door is left open? that's ridiculous!

Well yeah...but if your teenager leaves it open, as teenagers are won't to do, how would I know if I'm in an office in another part of the house? (hypothetical, I don't have teenagers but I was one).

We (partner, me , contractor) are renovating a house right now. There is a kids bathroom upstairs. I FOUGHT and I mean fought my partner and the contractor over one feature I wanted. I won and am so happy. That feature? The whole floor is sloped towards the external wall, the whole floor (from door to door wall to wall) is a three inch high sealed tub, and there is an emergency drain with an oil filled p-trap that just dumps outside. Cost us an extra $1,000. That's less than the deductible on our home owners insurance and way less than the damage a flooded bathroom would cause. The user research here was totally in how many families (including mine) had kids accidentally flood a bathroom doing dumb stuff and ruin the space below it as well.

Features are driven by user research, or should be. Rather than just calling it dumb because it doesn't fit your use case - think about the other users who might benefit. Especially when you are looking at feature that don't make sense if people behave rationally.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#408

Post by gameswithgo »

pmontra wrote: post #79
michaelt wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Wi-Fi is useful [...] Performs updates, etc. Ah yes, get wifi so your dishwasher can get security updates, which you need because your dishwasher is on wifi.

To be fair, it could also get functionality updates. For example they could upload a new totally different UX loved by the designers and that nobody else understands how to use ;-)

In theory yes, but so far in my 43 years of life feature updates are usually things that are hostile to the user.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#409

Post by jacquesm »

coding123 wrote: post #402
jacquesm wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's the Miele of 22 years ago that you are talking about. Not necessarily the one that exists today.

But if they were selling spare parts for models 22 years ago (assuming recently replaced) then that IS the Miele of today?

That's their service department. The build quality is an entirely different story and Miele stuff in stores today is not of the same quality that it was 22 years ago. And it definitely isn't the same as it was 50 years ago (amazingly: some of that stuff still runs today).

Miele had a definite edge on build quality, that means that services are fewer and farther between than with other brands given the same amount of use.

The joke was that if you wanted to armor plate your car you could do so with the side panels of Miele washing machines. Not too far from the truth, they were also much heavier than competitor gear. But those days are - as far as I can tell - over.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#410

Post by EricE »

Auracle wrote: post #367
tasha0663 wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely middling quality and design. Our Bosch dishwasher has the worst UI. Nothing exterior at all, only buttons inside the door itself. There's a secret button combo to set the "done" alarm to one of 4 volume settings: too loud, even louder, why is this so f'ing loud, and silent. So you either get a horrible noise that rings intermittently until you open it, or you get to play guessing games.

Our Breville toaster oven has the same loudness settings, but only 3 total. You clearly have the ability to set the loudness - give me a really quiet (but not silent) option damnit. I have a baby in the house.

Just crack it open and either clip the leads to the "speaker" or put a few layers of tape over it. I too hate appliances with loud beeps - or the new annoying trend of playing songs (usually from the Asian manufacturers).

Love my Breville toaster oven though - thing is so stinking versatile and by far the best of any I have ever used. We use it as an oven far more than as a toaster. Perfect for heating/baking most stuff without heating up the entire house like the regular oven does. We have the one that also has the air fry mode - use that mode all the time to cook vegetables that are delicious and a lot healthier too. Did I mention we really love our Breville toaster oven? And to think I originally chose it because it was the only one I could find that had a stinking light inside?

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