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My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

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Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#91

Post by mburee »

buro9 wrote: post #77
michaelt wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Wi-Fi is useful [...] Performs updates, etc. Ah yes, get wifi so your dishwasher can get security updates, which you need because your dishwasher is on wifi.

Updates improve wash efficiency, etc. Not just security updates. Maybe a new cleaning powder comes with a new algo. Maybe there's a better dosing for certain levels of water hardness. But the gist is that it updates the whole module. I'm fine with this, Miele are like Bosch in that they look after the hardware they sell for decades rather than considering it deprecated the day it leaves a shop floor.

Because it'd be too easy to just invest some time beforehand to figure out the optimal process beforehand.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#93

Post by alistairSH »

quacked wrote: post #55
krm01 wrote: post #40

Smart devices are overly complex. The entire point should have been to make devices work for you, but now when you buy a ‘smart’ washing machine, it requires you 30min of setup. Downloading apps, connecting it to wifi, providing GPS location etc. why? What’s the point. We need devices that make life simpler. Straight out of the box.

Are there any regulation barriers to selling "dumb" devices in the modern market? I've made the same point about pickup trucks--the 2002 Toyota Tacoma is a far preferable vehicle than the 2022 Toyota Tacoma for many truck owners, but when I've brought that up, people have pointed out that a number of laws make it impossible to sell a clone of the old version (must have backup cameras, must have X, must have Y, etc.)

All those things mandated for cars are related to safety. Back-up cameras are required to prevent drivers from running over small children. ABS and stability control to prevent crashes. Etc. And none of them, in a simple implementation, reduce the usability of the car/truck.

No such mandates exist for home appliances. The connectivity/apps are purely a money-grab - either people like the general idea of connected devices, or the manufacturer thinks they can monetize that connectivity post-sale (or likely some combination of the two).

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#94

Post by jallasprit »

buro9 wrote: post #77
michaelt wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Wi-Fi is useful [...] Performs updates, etc. Ah yes, get wifi so your dishwasher can get security updates, which you need because your dishwasher is on wifi.

Updates improve wash efficiency, etc. Not just security updates. Maybe a new cleaning powder comes with a new algo. Maybe there's a better dosing for certain levels of water hardness. But the gist is that it updates the whole module. I'm fine with this, Miele are like Bosch in that they look after the hardware they sell for decades rather than considering it deprecated the day it leaves a shop floor.

Doubt they would have any incentives to do anything but the bare minimum considering it doesn't appear to be a paid service?

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#95

Post by Cthulhu_ »

buro9 wrote: post #77
michaelt wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Wi-Fi is useful [...] Performs updates, etc. Ah yes, get wifi so your dishwasher can get security updates, which you need because your dishwasher is on wifi.

Updates improve wash efficiency, etc. Not just security updates. Maybe a new cleaning powder comes with a new algo. Maybe there's a better dosing for certain levels of water hardness. But the gist is that it updates the whole module. I'm fine with this, Miele are like Bosch in that they look after the hardware they sell for decades rather than considering it deprecated the day it leaves a shop floor.

In theory, but in practice it doesn't actually matter enough for it to make a difference. What software-only advances are being made in wash efficiency these days?

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#96

Post by fortran77 »

uxp100 wrote: post #75
buro9 wrote: post #5

Looks like a Miele. That menu can be exited (the image where it says "Software Update", the tiny bit on the right... that's a scroll bar of multiple options including the ability to exit this menu), but it does imply that the dishwasher is already connected to Wi-Fi and that it has determined that there is an update available. There are few times that a dishwasher is interacted with, if not when you go into the menu…

Hah, I have an AC window unit from Miele that is a great piece of hardware. But the app, my god, it's so bad. Every launch of the app requires a log in. Every log in error messages pop up about api endpoint such and such, but it works anyway. If a command fails, which it does half the time, the app gets out of sync with the unit (i.e. app will say fan speed medium, unit will say fan speed low). So I guess it syncs st…

I have a Miele speed oven that arrived with a major defect: Microwave worked, but heat modes didn't. They sent a repair crew and there was a missing wire harness in the circuitry. It never could have worked.

My experience with "high end" appliances in general (Bosch, Miele, Wolf, Subzero) is that it's a tax on "rich people". They're not better than top-line LG, etc.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#97

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

eli wrote: post #15
MSFT_Edging wrote: post #8

What reason could a dishwasher have for a firmware update? Did they not test their dishwasher? did they lock away features behind a subscription? Why would it need a security update if it wasn't internet connected?

No software is perfect when shipped. Most dishwashers have had updatable firmware for at least a decade, it just normally required a technician connecting to it with a cable.

Is domestic appliance history littered with terrifying tales of disastrous show-stopper bugs?

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#98

Post by JKCalhoun »

buro9 wrote: post #5

Looks like a Miele. That menu can be exited (the image where it says "Software Update", the tiny bit on the right... that's a scroll bar of multiple options including the ability to exit this menu), but it does imply that the dishwasher is already connected to Wi-Fi and that it has determined that there is an update available. There are few times that a dishwasher is interacted with, if not when you go into the menu…

> Looks like a Miele.

Well, kind of what I expect when I buy a cheap dishwasher.

(that's sarcasm)

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#99

Post by mgkimsal »

mburee wrote: post #91
buro9 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Updates improve wash efficiency, etc. Not just security updates. Maybe a new cleaning powder comes with a new algo. Maybe there's a better dosing for certain levels of water hardness. But the gist is that it updates the whole module. I'm fine with this, Miele are like Bosch in that they look after the hardware they sell for decades rather than considering it deprecated the day it leaves a shop floor.

Because it'd be too easy to just invest some time beforehand to figure out the optimal process beforehand.

Maybe there's some new dirt-sensing algorithms that can use crowd-sourced info to improve the efficiency for your specific dirt patterns and water type and detergent combination.

Re: My dishwasher won’t start until I let it update its firmware over the WiFi

#100

Post by alkonaut »

reustle wrote: post #62
zrail wrote: post #56

The pro move is to set up a password-protected hidden guest Wi-Fi with client isolation and use it for every IoT device that needs internet but no local access. Bonus points if you put it on an isolated VLAN but that's homelab 201.

I’m pretty sure the pro move is to never connect your dishwasher to the internet in the first place.

In this case I'd say the right move is to just not buy the connected device at all. It should be cheaper and not lack any features you want anyway.

In contrast to the case of a TV, you may want to buy the smart thing and not connect it. Because since all decent TVs now are smart TVs, chasing a much worse and/or much more expensive TV to avoid smart features in 2022 is usually going to be a really expensive way of buying a really poor TV (Such as a commercial panel, computer monitor, or low end TV - all bad TVs). Then it's better to just buy the smart TV you want and plug in an external source and just not use the smart features.

But with a dishwasher there is still a wide selection of dumb dishwashers. And if we keep buying those, that will be the case tomorrow too.

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