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In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

nytimes.com

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Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

#441

Post by [deleted] »

kelnos wrote: post #387
neither_color wrote: post #26

Last week, the government dismissed the case against Dr. Chen, which alleged that he had concealed seven Chinese affiliations in applications for $2.7 million in grants from the U.S. Energy Department. Prosecutors announced that they had received new information indicating that Dr. Chen had not been obliged to disclose those affiliations, undercutting the basis of the case. I feel like this part could use more detail…

Not sure what is unclear about this part you quoted: > Prosecutors announced that they had received new information indicating that Dr. Chen had not been obliged to disclose those affiliations He had affiliations, but they were of the kind that he was not required to disclose, so the government was harassing him for no reason.

[deleted]

Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

#442

Post by tasha0663 »

sangnoir wrote: post #384
tasha0663 wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The scientist's reputation has taken a big beating While this really sucked, this is an exaggeration. No charges. Still has his job. He can still file for government grants. The article starts with his colleagues offering up opportunities for him and celebrating that he is back. Yeah, the feds screwed the pooch and messed things up, but I don't see where his reputation was actually harmed.

> While this really sucked, this is an exaggeration He lost 15 doctoral students/post docs who moved on in his absence, and I'm assuming his research group(s) imploded - do you think it's going to be easy to get those back? He has a job, but it's not at the same job he had before - for one he'll be co-authoring fewer papers. So his reputation has taken a beating in measurable ways - that's no exaggeration.

You've cured my ignorance. Thanks.

Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

#443

Post by howmayiannoyyou »

RyEgswuCsn wrote: post #418
howmayiannoyyou wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think genocide, ethnic cleansing, natural resource exploitation on a global scale, modern day slavery & deadly global pathogen release are equivalent to US misconduct I wouldn't know where to begin in engaging with you.

I can spin this too if you allow me: "genocide" of Muslims via constant war-waging; "ethnic cleansing" of native Americans; natural resource exploitation on a global scale; "modern day slavery" (i.e. extreme capitalism) both domestically by trapping workers into lifetime debts, and overseas by outsourcing to sweat shops; "deadly global pathogen release" by politicising pandemic responses while failing at it. Rivalry…

> no contender for hegemony is morally superior than another.

Contemplate Nazi Germany winning WWII, or Soviet Russia winning the Cold War. Your contention doesn't stand up to history's lessons.

Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

#444

Post by howmayiannoyyou »

Banana699 wrote: post #398
howmayiannoyyou wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your point being: since the US provides aid to countries whose human rights records are controversial China should be free to steal and misuse US intellectual property. Great argument. Have fun in a world where China's views on human rights prevail. I'm sure you & your family and their families will be very happy.

>Your point being: since the US provides aid to countries whose human rights records are controversial China should be free to steal and misuse US intellectual property. That's not my point at all. My point is that it's hypocritical to worry about China using stolen US tech to augment and cement it's oppressive regime when there are countries whose entire dark existence is carved out of US tech and support. Quantitat…

Surveillance tech, AI, civil engineering & biotech are all examples of appropriated technologies used for heinous crimes against Tibetans, Uyghurs, Falun Gong & general dissent in China; and to hold SE Asia hostage to vast water sources now controlled by China. You're mistaken because you're poorly informed.

You're similarly misinformed about Israel. The IDF Ruach Tzahal sets forth an ethical code of conduct that has resulted in numerous prosecutions when violated. Yes, immoral actors (eg. Ariel Sharon) can effect terrible suffering as individuals on civilian populations. That's war and everything about it sucks. But, you won't find serious ethical codes of conduct in the Saudi or Chinese doctrines.

And this is my point... mistakes, imperfections, atrocities... it is inseparable from sustained conflict regardless of who is fighting. Some countries try to do better inside this reality, some pay lip service, some don't care. You lump it all together out of some personal and poorly informed bias.

Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

#445

Post by DenisM »

Tabular-Iceberg wrote: post #440
DenisM wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was mass incarceration of the Japanese Americans a noble cause? Nobody wants a bunch of hot-war enemy spies running around, after all. I'm not trolling you, I want to know where you draw the line (if at all). 9% false positive? 99%? 99.999%?

Yes, that’s also an appropriate use of the idiom.

How about preemptively jailing all men in case some are murderers. Also a noble cause?

Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

#446

Post by seanmcdirmid »

tharne wrote: post #183
commandlinefan wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To call this “equivalent “ yet.

Quoted post unavailable.

We did something similar to native Americans in the 19th century, and were still using boarding schools for this purpose into the mid 20th century. China’s playbook in forced assimilation probably comes with some experience from the USA.

Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

#447

Post by seanmcdirmid »

Aperocky wrote: post #165
ethanbond wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Errr... pretty sure the allegation is more specific than you suggest. The allegation was that he was being paid by China and did not disclose this on grant applications.

Case was closed, allegation was rejected. Witch hunt begins when allegation holds more weight then the verdict, and when it becomes the verdict, you can say goodbye to all semblance of rule of law, which surprisingly many here will condone depending on the subject.

Allegations can still be alleged even if they are later found to be unfounded.

Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

#448

Post by seanmcdirmid »

feoren wrote: post #354
greesil wrote: post #35

These things have a way of working themselves out. "Father of Chinese Rocketry" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qian_Xuesen Except for the 5 years under house arrest part. Wow.

Survivorship bias, perhaps? That is, all the stories you hear about like this are the kind that turn into stories you hear about -- you don't hear about anyone whose life is just quietly ruined, so it seems like they all work out fine. And of course nothing "works itself out" -- it's people who work them out. It doesn't have to be you -- it's OK to just read the article and move on with your own life -- but whenever…

The whole story is basically “how the USA gave China its space and ICBM program.” I assume “worked out” meant for the Chinese, because it really did.

Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

#449

Post by dang »

biohax2015 wrote: post #158

Please read about the Cultural Revolution. To call this “equivalent “ is laughable.

Please don't post ideological flamewar comments to HN. It leads to repetitive, dumbed-down, nasty discussion.

We detached this flamewar subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30114691 and marked it off topic.

Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

#450

Post by dang »

eecc wrote: post #366
biohax2015 wrote: post #158

Please read about the Cultural Revolution. To call this “equivalent “ is laughable.

Please improve your reading skills.

Personal attack will get you banned here, so please don't post like this.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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