Seriously this is next level paranoid. I wondering when will they have McCarthyism 2: Electric Boogaloo China Edition. I say a little before the next election
In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist
151–160 of 484 posts
Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Are you all really here in 2022, being like "we can't risk a Chinese national from even seeing our American semiconductor research, they will steal it and use it against us?" There are a number of issues at play here and I can speak to several of them, having either helped the federal government directly or having knowledge of industrial espionage in my industry at the time (semiconductors). Some technology is expo…
We (as in a company i have worked for) have caught employed chinese nationals try to install malware / provided internal account credentials to chinese ip addresses in simple retail big box industries. (I saw this happen personally and was shown what he was trying to install, and how a service account assigned to our group was trying to slurp up and probe the data from an IP address backtraced from China) If that can…
> If that can happen in something relatively trivial you dont think a high stakes industry has it worse?
I don't disclose my work for the federal government anymore on public profiles because I became tired of the constant hacking attempts directed at me. Once I scrubbed my profiles they stopped.
Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist
#153"The dismissal is a setback to the China Initiative, an effort started in 2018 to crack down on economic and scientific espionage by China." No, it is not. Why would it be a setback if somebody who is innocent has their case dismissed. I mean who writes such lines? Doesnt this line imply that this dismissal was a bad thing (since nobody endorses espionage).
One assumes that the goal of the China Initiative is to charge people who are actually guilty of espionage. Highly public failings at that goal would seem to be setbacks, right?
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Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist
#154> “My thinking is, I didn’t do anything wrong,” he said. “So whatever they look at, they won’t find that I did anything wrong.” This statement seems like a completely backward mindset to have, especially after watching this classic advice piece on youtube [1]. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE
What's backward isn't the statement, which is perfectly common sense, it's that judicial system.
Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I always give side eye to the accounting that considers lost sales opportunities to be losses. That's a perfectly valid but also somewhat trivial point. Some number has to be assigned as human nature requires it. Maybe the best representation of the situation is to present it as a question. When fabs cost $xx billion and take almost a decade to reach fruition from R&D to the point where they start shipping a viable…
It looks like saving a billion dollars in redundant work, which is a net societal gain. Now consumers have two companies to choose chips from instead of one functional monopoly due to a trade secret moat... Win for consumers. ;) ... Hence my unease with the way the question is phrased. I'm not saying we should either mandate corporate espionage or enforce some kind of punishments for not publicizing designs, but my p…
How are those even remotely similar?
On one hand you have a company that has invested billions of dollars to develop a technology on the assumption that it will give them an advantage that will allow them to recoup their losses. Then someone steals it and they can't recoup because it's no longer an advantage. Yes, in this one instance it's a benefit to consumers, but it's clearly not a benefit to the people who worked hard to develop the technology or the investors that took on the risk of trying.
It feels like your next argument will be that patents shouldn't be enforceable because it's better for society that everyone have access to everything.
Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I always give side eye to the accounting that considers lost sales opportunities to be losses. That's a perfectly valid but also somewhat trivial point. Some number has to be assigned as human nature requires it. Maybe the best representation of the situation is to present it as a question. When fabs cost $xx billion and take almost a decade to reach fruition from R&D to the point where they start shipping a viable…
It looks like saving a billion dollars in redundant work, which is a net societal gain. Now consumers have two companies to choose chips from instead of one functional monopoly due to a trade secret moat... Win for consumers. ;) ... Hence my unease with the way the question is phrased. I'm not saying we should either mandate corporate espionage or enforce some kind of punishments for not publicizing designs, but my p…
> It looks like saving a billion dollars in redundant work, which is a net societal gain. Now consumers have two companies to choose chips from instead of one functional monopoly due to a trade secret moat... Win for consumers. ;)
But looking at it from the company point of view.
- Company A spends 5 billion $ researching a new fab, from which better chips can be made.
- Company A expects to sell those chips as + +
- Company B steals the plans for the fab
- Company B sells the chips for +
At this point, it is impossible for Company A to recoup the money they spent researching the technology, because people will buy from Company B if it costs less from them. That's a pretty huge loss.
Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist
#157To at least attempt to think about this critically, and to try to ignore the amount of frankly shocking things people are saying here, can I ask, maybe from people in the field, is this level of industrial/scientific espionage even a critical factor in our current world? We live in a global world where scientists in various institutions are constantly trading papers, findings. Why are we so worried that the U.S. migh…
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Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist
#158Please read about the Cultural Revolution. To call this “equivalent “ is laughable.
Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist
#159To at least attempt to think about this critically, and to try to ignore the amount of frankly shocking things people are saying here, can I ask, maybe from people in the field, is this level of industrial/scientific espionage even a critical factor in our current world? We live in a global world where scientists in various institutions are constantly trading papers, findings. Why are we so worried that the U.S. migh…
You can't be serious about opsec and not take seriously the risk of an internal bad actor with access to your systems.
Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist
#160Note that the accusations of Dr Chen having ties to China are true. However, Dr Chen wasn’t legally required to disclose them: > Prosecutors announced that they had received new information indicating that Dr. Chen had not been obliged to disclose those affiliations, undercutting the basis of the case. In either case I believe ties to China are harmful, they are not a friendly country.
Wut? Chinese American scientific collaboration is one of the most the strongest on Earth. You'll have ten of thousands of folks in scientific community having ties to China.