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Alder Lake Core i9 processor is faster than the M1 Max

macworld.com

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Re: Alder Lake Core i9 processor is faster than the M1 Max

#291

Post by jsiaajdsdaa »

baq wrote: post #284
washadjeffmad wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I ordered an M1 Max at launch at work and use an M1 Pro, and I've been so impressed with the M1 Air that I bought... a $150 Chromebook. It's complicated. My next mobile purchase (or build, I'm into cyberdecks lately) will have a different form factor display, like 4:3 or 3:2, and I hope Apple makes it. I really thought the Framework might be it until I used one, but it felt like they're only making laptops as an expe…

yes, the M1 Air is the best laptop since... the original Air? it might be the best laptop in terms of value for price ever. I've never had a mac before, but this thing is objectively the best there is for the price.

my experience with any intel mac is that they are louder than a jet engine and hotter than motorcycle exhaust pipes in texas

it's a very strange feeling, they actually burn so much that they itch

Re: Alder Lake Core i9 processor is faster than the M1 Max

#293

Post by omegalulw »

chias wrote: post #113
Eric_WVGG wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think this is going to happen, but: It would be extremely funny if Apple strapped a heavy copper heatsink and a turbo fan to an M1 and just overclocked the ever-lasting crap out of it. The crazy thing about using a Macbook Pro (with an M1 Pro or M1 Max CPU) is that, in single-threaded performance, it's really no faster than a dippy little Macbook Air. And at the end of the day, single-thread performance is mo…

Overclocking isn't just limited by heat dissipation, and dealing with the additional heat generation is one of the easier issues to overcome. Much more limiting is the fact that the electronic components in the hardware (everything from RAM to the more "integrated" components on the PCBs) have certain amounts of time which they need to take in order to tie voltages high or low, to either read or output a bit. This am…

> have certain amounts of time which they need to take in order to tie voltages high or low, to either read or output a bit.

When you overclock you add voltage which helps with this which goes a long way. You would often hit thermal limits first, so heat dissipation is a major factor.

Re: Alder Lake Core i9 processor is faster than the M1 Max

#294

Post by klelatti »

MBCook wrote: post #48
loeg wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, ARM is fine, as long as Mac meets your needs. No other ARM is close, and as a PC hardware platform, it’s still a giant pain compared to x86.

Seems like Graviton may be there, but of course Amazon isn’t going to sell those to anyone.

No but Graviton is a modified Neoverse which others do sell - eg Ampere

Re: Alder Lake Core i9 processor is faster than the M1 Max

#295

Post by pschastain »

fartcannon wrote: post #20
chii wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the fact is, apple hardware is not _that_ expensive relative to what you get for the money. Their supply chain is super optimized, and it's hard to beat them on price if a competitor decides to try (at the same quality that is).

Yeah but it's locked down, unupgradable future e-waste.

Both my wife and I had 2011 MBPs that were only replaced last year. I upgraded the RAM & replaced the HDDs with SSDs over the years, which is reasonable imo.

I'd say 10 years is a pretty good run for a laptop. YMMV

Re: Alder Lake Core i9 processor is faster than the M1 Max

#296

Post by ribit »

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #55
dijit wrote: post #3

3.5%-5% increase in performance at more than double the wattage, for a chip that is not in consumers hands against a chip that basically hasn't changed and was released 14 months ago~ This is not the victory that the title implies. It's also a _little_ bit funny that the i9 laptop was double the price, given people usually rant loudly about how expensive Apple computers are.

I don’t think this is going to happen, but: It would be extremely funny if Apple strapped a heavy copper heatsink and a turbo fan to an M1 and just overclocked the ever-lasting crap out of it. The crazy thing about using a Macbook Pro (with an M1 Pro or M1 Max CPU) is that, in single-threaded performance, it's really no faster than a dippy little Macbook Air. And at the end of the day, single-thread performance is mo…

It is likely that 3.2ghz is close to practical ceiling for these CPU cores for some technical reason. It's not about thermal headroom, but the very ability of the circuitry to run at faster speeds. It has been speculated that one way how Apple achieves their impressive perf/watt is to use logic gate arrangements that can only run at low frequency but bring massive wins in power consumption.

Re: Alder Lake Core i9 processor is faster than the M1 Max

#297

Post by ribit »

ksec wrote: post #250

1. The M1 / M1 Pro / Max Single Core Max out at around 5W. On TSMC 5nm, at 3.2Ghz. 2. The AlderLake i9-12900HK, is on Intel 7nm ( Or Intel7 ), runs with a a maximum of 5Ghz. My guess the power for single core on this chip is anywhere from 15W to 20W. 3. The Single core performance between the two are about ~5% to 20% if you are SIMD heavy. There are lots of people in thread and the article linked comparing the system…

The single core power for ADL at 5Ghz will probably be closer to 25-30W (based on the desktop ADL tests), otherwise couldn't agree more.

Re: Alder Lake Core i9 processor is faster than the M1 Max

#298

Post by phinnaeus »

marcan_42 wrote: post #209
wmf wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, I don't think the M1 family will clock any higher than it's already going. The rumored M1 Max Duo and M1 Max Quadro will have more cores but they'll still trail Intel in single-thread performance (although not enough for most people to notice).

I still maintain the M1 Max Quadro is a figment of media imagination. The M1 Max die is designed for precisely two-die usage. Not four. The IRQ controller has registers for two dies. The drivers reference two dies. The whole thing screams two dies everywhere. 4-die Apple Silicon machines will surely come, but not with the M1 Max die. It'll be a new design.

What about a dual CPU Mac Pro?

Edit: thinking about this for a few more seconds, I realise this is a completely separate discussion, but I was just trying to think how Apple could accomplish the Quad branding even if internally its separate CPUs.

Re: Alder Lake Core i9 processor is faster than the M1 Max

#299

Post by stevenhuang »

2oi3ji32oj wrote: post #249
victorronin wrote: post #25

I switched about half a year ago from a MacBook Pro with an Intel processor to MacBook Pro with an M1 processor. My overall impression was "when the hell will it run out of power"? I spent the whole working day (without a charger) and it was still at 60%, while I was constantly stressed before when I had to do something without a charger for more than 3-4 hours. I don't care what any test, but tripling battery life w…

On my macbook M1 Pro I was able to work for ~11 hours without charging and on Thinkpad P14S GEN 2 AMD (5850U CPU) with a 4K display I can work for ~ 7 hours. So the difference is not that big TBH.

An additional 4 hours is massive.

Re: Alder Lake Core i9 processor is faster than the M1 Max

#300

Post by WatchDog »

marcan_42 wrote: post #282
mmmBacon wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again yield; not sure how many people understand how big yield would be even Apple. At some yield you can’t support the demand. None of what was written above makes a lot of sense unless Apples just burning fab cycles. They might be but I kind of doubt it since it would seriously impact device cost and would take up slots in the fab leading to longer lead times. Not even Apple can dictate all their chips to be P1 at…

I'm not guessing. They are different dies. There is no need to write a hypothetical wall of text and get it wrong; you can just look up die shots or chip package shots or device trees and know they're different dies. This information is well known. There's a massive difference in size and aspect ratio between all 3 dies. It would not be cost efficient to fab M1 Max dies and sell them as M1 Pro. The M1 Max is explicit…

I tried finding die shots of the M1.

Techinsights have a die shot of the original M1[0].

But for the pro and max, I could only find the die shots from the apple press release.

The pro just looks like a cropped max, I wasn't sure if it was just cropped for illustration purposes or actually a different die.

Are there any publicly available die shots of pro/max from a third party source?

[0]: https://www.techinsights.com/blog/two-new-apple-socs-two-mar...

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