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Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

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Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#161

Post by space_fountain »

Baloo wrote: post #128
myko wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://twitter.com/JohnsHopkinsSPH/status/14816875061481185... https://www.healthline.com/health-news/vaccinated-people-can... It is well known that vaccination helps to reduce spread. It isn't perfect, but it is better than being unvaccinated. The data is clear but you can also reason about this and feel like it is intuitively true - those that are vaccinated face better outcomes and are sick for shorter periods of…

Shouldn't people be isolating regardless of vaccination status, so the argument that they're sick for shorter amount of time is redundant? Why do we care about the virus spreading, it's always going to spread.. the concern should be giving the vaccine to the vulnerable that need it; the main benefit is reducing severity for them. For everyone else, its main benefit is securing revenue for the leading drug manufacture…

This feels a bit like moving the goal post like a few different times. This is about the claim that vaccines don't reduce spread, that appears to be false. You're reacting like this is about if people have at least a moral obligation to get vaccinated. While I do think that's true, I think it's more productive to stay strictly to the facts.

Ok though if we're going to move the goal post.

> Shouldn't people be isolating regardless of vaccination status, so the argument that they're sick for shorter amount of time is redundant?

Maybe, but we all know that people aren't isolating every time they have cold symptoms, certainly not universally and probably not the people who aren't current vaccinated.

> Why do we care about the virus spreading, it's always going to spread.

That is only true now that we've given it time to become one of the most infectious viruses ever. A quick rollout of vaccines combined with a few common since interventions did (perhaps) have the potential to achieve herd immunity, but regardless the speed at which it spreads is of literally deadly importance. Overwhelming hospitals kills people (and kills people well before they are literally out of beds).

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#162

Post by Baloo »

space_fountain wrote: post #161
Baloo wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shouldn't people be isolating regardless of vaccination status, so the argument that they're sick for shorter amount of time is redundant? Why do we care about the virus spreading, it's always going to spread.. the concern should be giving the vaccine to the vulnerable that need it; the main benefit is reducing severity for them. For everyone else, its main benefit is securing revenue for the leading drug manufacture…

This feels a bit like moving the goal post like a few different times. This is about the claim that vaccines don't reduce spread, that appears to be false. You're reacting like this is about if people have at least a moral obligation to get vaccinated. While I do think that's true, I think it's more productive to stay strictly to the facts. Ok though if we're going to move the goal post. > Shouldn't people be isolati…

One of the single most important things we can do to slow the spread, is isolate when we're sick or in contact with someone that tests positive. If we did this one step effectively, it would reduce infection significantly. It's something done extremely well in countries like SK, Japan, China.

People who need to isolate should be sent care packages so they don't need to go out to the shop, they should update their status regularly and be given what they need to pay bills.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#163

Post by nradov »

belval wrote: post #77
0x_rs wrote: post #59

This is a state fighting its own citizens for a political act of ignorance. 90% of eligible individuals have received at least one dose in Quebec.[0] What's the point of additional marginalization of a very stubborn group of people? It's playing with fire and with no responsibilities, as I severely doubt anyone will be convinced to get vaccinated because they can't go to Walmart after one year of restrictions, but it…

Not sure if you're from Quebec so this wouldn't be news to you, but our healthcare is BAD. Like comically bad. Nurses are routinely forced to do doubles because they don't have enough staff, hell we don't even have enough beds either! Because of COVID a lot of non-critical but still pretty important procedures were cancelled for lack of workers. So in that context the government is legitimately scared of it all crash…

During the previous coronavirus pandemic, which we think started in 1889, there was basically no healthcare at all.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S026240792...

https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/JVI.79.3.1595-1604.2005

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#164

Post by ggm »

WaylonKenning wrote: post #26
Mikeb85 wrote: post #4

The UK, Denmark and others moving to get rid of ALL restrictions. Meanwhile Canada, Australia and others devolving into police states... Edit - forgot some other countries. Netherlands, Ireland also ditching restrictions...

As someone who lived in Canada, lives next to Australia, and lives in New Zealand, I wouldn't suggest any of these places are 'devolving into police states'. Having people do stuff to protect the safety of themselves and others is part of the social contract of these countries. We wear seatbelts. We wear helmets on Motorbikes. All things that restrict our freedom to damage ourselves. Because who incurs the cost of wh…

Australia is not a police state. Its a state with a complex federal structure which has concerns about broad-brush legislative change, but thats about boil-the-frog-slowly changes, which are being resisted in the senate.

We are not under martial law, or required to register with the police, or subject to wide-ranging arbitrary constraints.

We have temporary, government moderated, revokable restrictions under public health orders which have existed for decades. It is true that some lazy states sought to increase minister-directed powers but this didn't just slip through parliament.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#165

Post by pindab0ter »

nradov wrote: post #163
belval wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if you're from Quebec so this wouldn't be news to you, but our healthcare is BAD. Like comically bad. Nurses are routinely forced to do doubles because they don't have enough staff, hell we don't even have enough beds either! Because of COVID a lot of non-critical but still pretty important procedures were cancelled for lack of workers. So in that context the government is legitimately scared of it all crash…

During the previous coronavirus pandemic, which we think started in 1889, there was basically no healthcare at all. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S026240792... https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/JVI.79.3.1595-1604.2005

Are you saying that is fine for the healthcare system to come crashing down because we’ve ‘been there before?

I know I should find the most charitable interpretation, but I genuinely don’t see it.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#166

Post by rastignack »

peteradio wrote: post #143
rastignack wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to be more precise, unvaccinated people represent 26% of new hospitalizations in quebec, and 40% in ICU according to the official dashboard [1]. The efficiency against omicron is very limited, thus the huge deprivations we see here are politically motivated. I feel like I’m living a scary dystopia. 1 - https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJt95WHXMAEHzyp?format=jpg&name=...

26% of all new hospitalizations or "Covid" hospitalizations? In the States Covid is at most 30% of ICU and unvaccinated would be a small portion of that number.

In France Covid is roughly 5 to get 10% of all emergency services patients.

So 26% percent of Covid hospitalizations it is.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#167

Post by dmarchand90 »

0x_rs wrote: post #59

This is a state fighting its own citizens for a political act of ignorance. 90% of eligible individuals have received at least one dose in Quebec.[0] What's the point of additional marginalization of a very stubborn group of people? It's playing with fire and with no responsibilities, as I severely doubt anyone will be convinced to get vaccinated because they can't go to Walmart after one year of restrictions, but it…

Remember this is the province that effectively made English illegal and has a well-staffed language police

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#168

Post by rdsubhas »

dmarchand90 wrote: post #167
0x_rs wrote: post #59

This is a state fighting its own citizens for a political act of ignorance. 90% of eligible individuals have received at least one dose in Quebec.[0] What's the point of additional marginalization of a very stubborn group of people? It's playing with fire and with no responsibilities, as I severely doubt anyone will be convinced to get vaccinated because they can't go to Walmart after one year of restrictions, but it…

Remember this is the province that effectively made English illegal and has a well-staffed language police

I originally thought you were kidding. But dang, you were not!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_qu%C3%A9b%C3%A9cois_d...

> Citing a Montreal restaurant for having a small "recommended on Tripadvisor" sticker in the bottom corner of a window. The complaint was that the sticker was in English and there was no French version displayed.

> Issuing a letter of complaint to the owner of a board game store for mostly selling board games with English packaging, though French versions did not exist for the majority of the games in question

> Demanding the town of St. Lazare remove "Welcome" from the town's welcome signs, leaving only the French version, "Vous accueille", though one-third of the town's residents were native English speakers. The town instead opted to remove all words from the welcome sign.

> Citing a small business in Chelsea for replying in English to English comments on the store's Facebook page without writing a second, French version of the response

> Citing a restaurant that specializes in grilled cheese for having "Grilled cheese" on their sign rather than the French version "sandwich au fromage fondu

I'm amazed such a thing legally exists in 2022 in a Western, developed country like Canada.

Thank you poster, I learned something new today.

Edit: This too: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastagate

> Pastagate is the informal name of an incident that began in 2013 in Quebec, when, on 14 February, an inspector of the Office québécois de la langue française (OQLF) sent a letter of warning to an upscale restaurant, Buonanotte, for using Italian words such as "pasta", "antipasti", "calamari", etc. on its menu instead of their French equivalents

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#169

Post by loceng »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #158
loceng wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lazy response. Citations needed. You have no idea what you're talking about, you're talking out of your ass: respond to my specific points. Comorbidities play a major role in hospitalization and death and overall Canadians are healthier than Americans, for one point - but you're clearly not interested in deepening your understanding and put out lazy generalized statements like you just replied with - in an attempt to…

You've convinced me. We need to open up. It's critical for people's mental health that people need to see marvel movies in theatre unmasked. dead bodies be damned.

Since you don't seem to like to read much, here's a specific statistic that shows how the statistic you presented is grossly misrepresenting the situation by masking reality:

"CDC saw 51% increase in suicide attempts by adolescent girls during pandemic [age 12-25]" https://nbcmontana.com/news/nation-world/cdc-saw-51-increase...

And the source: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7024e1.htm

But who cares if there's more young girls killing themselves if less older people kill themselves, AMIRITE?

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#170

Post by sleepingadmin »

superkuh wrote: post #2

The public policy responses to this pandemic would make a whole lot more sense if intramuscular (humoral) vaccination actually prevented (or even significantly mitigated) the spread of sars-cov-2. Unfortunately humoral vaccination only starts the B cell to plasma cells training and generation of igG antibodies in the body serum to protect internal organs. Other immune compartments like the upper respiratory mucosa ar…

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