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Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

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Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#141

Post by loceng »

xboxnolifes wrote: post #73
loceng wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully then the companies are just as willing to pay fines for following illegal rules put in place without following the parliamentary process.

What does an illegal rule (law) even mean? I'm an American so maybe I'm missing something from another country, but the two are one and the same as far as I know. If I needed to start making judgement calls on every law on whether it's illegal or not, that would be a wild way to live.

Our parliament was closed for most of the pandemic, so 1) opposition wasn't possible, and 2) our Charter of Rights is being violated - due process isn't being followed.

Jordan Peterson just released an interview with a now retired First Minister who is last living politician who helped craft our Charter of Rights in 1981/1982, where they go into detail about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdhFuMDLBDM - they include the initial and post interview "behind the scenes" as part of transparency - so there's background noise initially while they're getting setup.

An elected government going through a process wrongly and putting it forward as truth, as legal, would be an illegal law.

Indeed, that would be a wild way to live - which is why we generally blindly trust our government, which is a huge problem - but when it's as important and critical as moments like this, people start standing up and protesting.

There's also the https://FreeNorthDeclaration.ca with 500+ Canadian lawyers who have signed - their petition and hope is to educate Canadians that laws are being broken and that due process isn't being followed.

[I would have replied almost immediately to you but HN's rate limiting number of comments]

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#142

Post by loceng »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #76
loceng wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

suicides are way down. just stop. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-suicides-in-c...

Stop asking questions, stop having concerns and compassion for my fellow humans, stop conversation as part of scientific process? Who's more likely the person who should stop their behaviour - you or me?

Alright, so that's one article - and across Canada - now what about specific demographics? What about the 2nd year of the pandemic?

Specific demographics matter because, for example, risk of myocarditis for young boys is something between 1:2000 and 1:3800 but spread across the population it's supposedly something closer to 1:100,000 - so hopefully you get why that's an important factor, right? You understand that insights can easily be hidden (whether maliciously/purposefully or not) by generalized macro numbers? Likewise, what demographics was there a decrease in — and what demographics may there have been an increase in? I hope you understand math enough to understand that a 300% increase in one demographic may be completely washed out by a 80% decrease from another larger demographic? But you’re satisfied with a “32% reduction in suicides” as the final answer - why is that? Did you just not think it through enough, or what gives?

Do you think anyone critically thinking through this, following scientific methods and statistics, is perhaps a [pejorative] “anti-vaxxer” - and so you automatically and lazily categorize them as such — and they’re soooo irritating because they counter the simplified mainstream narrative being perpetuated that you reach the impetus of saying “just stop” to someone looking for the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth [so help you God; if you’re into that God concept]? Why I ask is that it’s crucial we figure out why people are so easily indoctrinated into ideology, as part of finding the solution to this intellectual-ideological crisis we’re currently in - which certainly ties into the general health crisis that we’re in [including obesity as a signal].

Or wait - I should listen to you and stop asking these pesky nuanced questions because?

[I would have replied almost immediately to you but HN's rate limiting number of comments]

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#143

Post by peteradio »

rastignack wrote: post #46
kiba wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obesity is a multifactorial societal problem with possible environmental and chemical factors, while covid can be vaccinated against with a simple jab.

Just to be more precise, unvaccinated people represent 26% of new hospitalizations in quebec, and 40% in ICU according to the official dashboard [1]. The efficiency against omicron is very limited, thus the huge deprivations we see here are politically motivated. I feel like I’m living a scary dystopia. 1 - https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJt95WHXMAEHzyp?format=jpg&name=...

26% of all new hospitalizations or "Covid" hospitalizations? In the States Covid is at most 30% of ICU and unvaccinated would be a small portion of that number.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#144

Post by errcorrectcode »

dijonman2 wrote: post #54
SSilver2k2 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a police state to put in more restrictions after the bare minimum hasn't worked or been followed.

False. Individual liberty must be protected. Denying food shopping is a special kind of cruel and unusual punishment. It’s a personal choice, full stop.

So let's suppose there were an airborne, easily-transmissible hemorrhagic fever pandemic. Do you want "muh freedoms", or everyone following clear rules and not endangering the lives of others? When people aren't being reasonable enough to do what's essential for safety of others, force and consequences are needed to make them learn the lesson. Rule of law.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#145

Post by errcorrectcode »

Baloo wrote: post #126
tsimionescu wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should it be a personal choice? Living through this pandemic without getting vaccinated is at least as dangerous to public health as driving a car without wearing a seatbelt, and that is illegal. Even if the vaccine did nothing to stop the spread of COVID (it does much more than nothing), it is still of vital importance to keeping ICUs free, which in turn is important for everyone. Since your choice has an outsiz…

Where exactly do we draw the line? I'm young, slim, healthy, unvaccinated, not tested positive for Covid once even after my housemates had it. "There is not a single example of a country with less than 40% of the population overweight that has high death rates (over 10 per 100,000). Similarly, no country with a death rate over 100 per 100,000 had less than 50% of their population overweight" Are we going to start ban…

Do you wear a seatbelt?

Why do you refuse to get vaccinated? There are plenty of young, slim, healthy, unvaccinated people who also died. Your "choice" is inconsiderate to others in society who may catch it from you, that it may mutate in you and cause a worse variant, to people who care about you, and to the EMS and healthcare workers who you feel entitled to lean on when they're already overworked. This isn't about self-righteous entitlement to your "rights", this is about your duties to others to be a respectable member of a functional community and society.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#146

Post by jpambrun »

rastignack wrote: post #136
jpambrun wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be comparable if we had a vaccine for obesity. I see no dark pattern.

Diet and exercise. I’ve made efforts my whole life to eat well. I did not fear Covid for that precise reason (I’m under 40)

Diet and exercise doesn't work for everyone, and it's not close to comparable to a 15 minute vaccine appointment. You are being dishonest.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#147

Post by ModernMech »

miked85 wrote: post #83
myko wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a lot of data showing unvaccinated are at higher risk of severe illness and spread disease more than vaccinated folks. You are wrong. https://www.healthline.com/health-news/vaccinated-people-can... https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/2021112... The data is clear. They're not banned from buying groceries, they're banned from entering the stores - which unquestionably would lead to them spread…

I thought it's been established that the vaccinated spread the virus just as vaccinated do [1]. The vaccines might help the person taking it, but that isn't even clear anymore since the vaccines were not engineered for this variant. [1] https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/cdc-director-covid-...

This article [1] has some good info regarding transmission in the context of the quote in your source.

  While mRNA vaccines – produced by Pfizer and Moderna – continue to offer some level of protection against transmission of omicron, other vaccines – such as Johnson & Johnson, Sinopharm and AstraZeneca – offer “almost no defense,"

  “It gets very easy to misconstrue,” Dowdy said. “If someone asks, do vaccines prevent infection, and you have to give a yes or no answer, then the answer is no, they’re not a perfect blockade. But do the vaccines offer some protection against infection? The answer is yes.”
[1] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2022/01/21/fac...

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#148

Post by [deleted] »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #5
superkuh wrote: post #2

The public policy responses to this pandemic would make a whole lot more sense if intramuscular (humoral) vaccination actually prevented (or even significantly mitigated) the spread of sars-cov-2. Unfortunately humoral vaccination only starts the B cell to plasma cells training and generation of igG antibodies in the body serum to protect internal organs. Other immune compartments like the upper respiratory mucosa ar…

The Quebec government's major concern is protecting their health care system. The Canadian health care system was quite stretched pre-pandemic, and it wouldn't take much to break it. The goal at this point is less about preventing the spread than it is about increasing the vaccination rate to keep people out of hospitals.

[deleted]

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#149

Post by Tiktaalik »

loceng wrote: post #142
Tiktaalik wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

suicides are way down. just stop. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-suicides-in-c...

Stop asking questions, stop having concerns and compassion for my fellow humans, stop conversation as part of scientific process? Who's more likely the person who should stop their behaviour - you or me? Alright, so that's one article - and across Canada - now what about specific demographics? What about the 2nd year of the pandemic? Specific demographics matter because, for example, risk of myocarditis for young boy…

stop pushing against the health and safety measures that have helped Canada avoid the brutal death rates that America has.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#150

Post by [deleted] »

errcorrectcode wrote: post #145
Baloo wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where exactly do we draw the line? I'm young, slim, healthy, unvaccinated, not tested positive for Covid once even after my housemates had it. "There is not a single example of a country with less than 40% of the population overweight that has high death rates (over 10 per 100,000). Similarly, no country with a death rate over 100 per 100,000 had less than 50% of their population overweight" Are we going to start ban…

Do you wear a seatbelt? Why do you refuse to get vaccinated? There are plenty of young, slim, healthy, unvaccinated people who also died. Your "choice" is inconsiderate to others in society who may catch it from you, that it may mutate in you and cause a worse variant, to people who care about you, and to the EMS and healthcare workers who you feel entitled to lean on when they're already overworked. This isn't about…

[deleted]
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