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Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

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Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#121

Post by hackstack »

belval wrote: post #119
subsubzero wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like a problem with health infrastructure. So because leaders did not put in the needed health infrastructure to serve the population, basic rights(buying food) are violated for some.

Yes, that's what I wrote. Health infrastructure does not exist in a vacuum and between non-vaccinated having to shop at a regular grocery store and people literally dying because we don't have beds in hospital I'll take the lesser evil. FWIW I agree that after 2 years of the pandemic I see it as a failure of leadership. > Basic rights(buying food) are violated for some Let's not resort to hyperbole here. They can sho…

They can shop at alternatives (if they exist in the specific town in Quebec), for now.

It's not really hyperbole, I think. The basic right is at the very least being threatened, if not explicitly violated (yet).

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#122

Post by motohagiography »

Quebec is a test ground because they've got a language barrier, so it's not like any resistance will register or trend online or make mainstream media. This has nothing to do with safety either. Knowing some people who work in Walmart corporate, I interpret it as pure cynical and radical politics. The Waltons have shown they are very much on board with the WEF/ESG agenda, and they are as out of touch with us as Bentonville is to the rest of Arkansas.

It's an abomination, but if I were to make a prediction, judging by the size of the truck convoy crossing the country, this will be the least interesting news about this topic over the next couple of weeks.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#124

Post by slackfan »

daenz wrote: post #29

>A statement on Costco’s website states that as per their Code of Ethics, they are required to comply with the law wherever they operate. Either support it or don't, but this lukewarm response of "I'm just obeying orders" is cowardly.

No post body was provided.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#125

Post by superkuh »

rastignack wrote: post #25
superkuh wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a shot, an intranasal spray. The leading candidates on clinicaltrials.gov are adenovirus carried spike protein based versions (I would rather have mRNA) but it should still do the job of getting upper respiratory resident T cells trained on sars-cov-2 epitopes.

It might work, who knows. But how comes there are 4 endemic coronaviruses ? Do you think a sterilizing vaccine is even possible ? Wouldn’t immunity also wane ?

The igA antibodies produced by trained mucosal resident B->plasma cells would stick around for an even shorter time than the igG antibodies do in the body serum. But the trained and resident T cells would be there to kill off infected cells right at the start instead of after days. So yeah, I think a sterilizing intranasal vaccine is possible but it likely won't depend on the igA antibodies generated. This follows with the studies of "super" immunity in rare special medical workers who never get sick with covid-19 and also never show antibodies for it. The nature paper seemed to show it was their upper respiratory mucosal T cells doing the job; having already been trained and cross reactive with other coronaviruses. But we can't all be lucky mutants and most of our upper respiratory systems will need some training.

ref: https://science.sciencemag.org/content/373/6553/397 (paywall bypass full pdf: http://erewhon.superkuh.com/library/Biology/Coronavirus/Intr...)

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#126

Post by Baloo »

tsimionescu wrote: post #69
dijonman2 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False. Individual liberty must be protected. Denying food shopping is a special kind of cruel and unusual punishment. It’s a personal choice, full stop.

Why should it be a personal choice? Living through this pandemic without getting vaccinated is at least as dangerous to public health as driving a car without wearing a seatbelt, and that is illegal. Even if the vaccine did nothing to stop the spread of COVID (it does much more than nothing), it is still of vital importance to keeping ICUs free, which in turn is important for everyone. Since your choice has an outsiz…

Where exactly do we draw the line?

I'm young, slim, healthy, unvaccinated, not tested positive for Covid once even after my housemates had it.

"There is not a single example of a country with less than 40% of the population overweight that has high death rates (over 10 per 100,000). Similarly, no country with a death rate over 100 per 100,000 had less than 50% of their population overweight"

Are we going to start banning overweight from consuming alcohol and eating fast food? They're putting tremendous pressure on our universal healthcare system, their choice to be unhealthy has an outsized effect on society; specifically the health systems that we are using as a reason to push vaccination on everyone, regardless of their risk category.

Can't you see where this mindset leads us?

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#127

Post by lamontcg »

subsubzero wrote: post #108
belval wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if you're from Quebec so this wouldn't be news to you, but our healthcare is BAD. Like comically bad. Nurses are routinely forced to do doubles because they don't have enough staff, hell we don't even have enough beds either! Because of COVID a lot of non-critical but still pretty important procedures were cancelled for lack of workers. So in that context the government is legitimately scared of it all crash…

That sounds like a problem with health infrastructure. So because leaders did not put in the needed health infrastructure to serve the population, basic rights(buying food) are violated for some.

> basic rights(buying food) are violated for some.

vaccines are free.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#128

Post by Baloo »

myko wrote: post #57
34679 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is false. I challenge anyone to find any statement, from any of the mRNA vaccine manufacturers, from any point in time, that claims the vaccines reduce transmission even a tiny bit.

https://twitter.com/JohnsHopkinsSPH/status/14816875061481185... https://www.healthline.com/health-news/vaccinated-people-can... It is well known that vaccination helps to reduce spread. It isn't perfect, but it is better than being unvaccinated. The data is clear but you can also reason about this and feel like it is intuitively true - those that are vaccinated face better outcomes and are sick for shorter periods of…

Shouldn't people be isolating regardless of vaccination status, so the argument that they're sick for shorter amount of time is redundant?

Why do we care about the virus spreading, it's always going to spread.. the concern should be giving the vaccine to the vulnerable that need it; the main benefit is reducing severity for them. For everyone else, its main benefit is securing revenue for the leading drug manufacturers.

If I'm unvaccinated and testing negative, then what is the problem?

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#129

Post by belval »

IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #120
belval wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if you're from Quebec so this wouldn't be news to you, but our healthcare is BAD. Like comically bad. Nurses are routinely forced to do doubles because they don't have enough staff, hell we don't even have enough beds either! Because of COVID a lot of non-critical but still pretty important procedures were cancelled for lack of workers. So in that context the government is legitimately scared of it all crash…

They had almost 2 years to prepare for this. Further, hasnt the "lack of workers" been exacerbated from vaccine mandates on workers? So, you have a system that cannot competently do its work prior to crisis cannot plan with enough time and *further chooses to shoot itself of the foot by limiting their labor None of these seem to indicate that those in charge care about taxpayers in the process. What is the government…

> Further, hasnt the "lack of workers" been exacerbated from vaccine mandates on workers?

There is no vaccine mandate for workers. They tried to push for it initially but they realized that they couldn't deal with the unvaccinated workers leaving, especially in long term care homes.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#130

Post by belval »

hackstack wrote: post #121
belval wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's what I wrote. Health infrastructure does not exist in a vacuum and between non-vaccinated having to shop at a regular grocery store and people literally dying because we don't have beds in hospital I'll take the lesser evil. FWIW I agree that after 2 years of the pandemic I see it as a failure of leadership. > Basic rights(buying food) are violated for some Let's not resort to hyperbole here. They can sho…

They can shop at alternatives (if they exist in the specific town in Quebec), for now. It's not really hyperbole, I think. The basic right is at the very least being threatened, if not explicitly violated (yet).

Quebec is not like the US in that regard, you won't find a town here that only has a Walmart/Costco. Those are limited to more developed urban centers that have plenty of alternatives.
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