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Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

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Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#891

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Encouraging natural immunity is asking for hospitals to get filled up by people giving themselves covid on purpose. This affects non covid patients too. I suspect that's why the media doesn't do it.

>Encouraging natural immunity is asking for hospitals to get filled up by people giving themselves covid on purpose. there's no interest in talking about actual treatments or a $1 early treatment remedy [1], like every other disease. There's nothing that's patentable and profitable, so the focus is on vaccinations, which increasingly show more infections The US DoD maintains detailed military personnel data to protec…

Thank you for posting.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#892

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So every government, the world over, even those at war with each other, all decided to push a "get vaccinated" message for reasons other than health? I mean, governments want to ensure their income stream (tax payers) are alive to pay taxes, but that's hardly "corrupt" and is still to do, indirectly, with public health

> So every government, the world over, even those at war with each other, all decided Yes, it's quite a possibility. Please read into the growing concentration of world power via corporations and un-elected organization like the WEF and WHO. Further, please read into puplic-private partnerships. Our world is a global one these days and nearly every government is corrupted by a form of corporatism.

> Our world is a global one these days and nearly every government is corrupted by a form of corporatism.

So communist Cuba is corrupted by a form of corporatism? Big pharma got to the ayatollahs in Iran? Maduro in Venezuela is goose stepping to the beat of the pharmaceutical conspiracy?

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#893

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In case you haven't seen it before, https://euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps has graphs of excess data for most of Europe (plus Israel) by age groups. I find it a great resource to cross-check the misinformation of the mainstream media. For example, I challenge anybody to look at the 0-14 and 14-44 graphs and tell me when covid actually occurred. Note that excess is not defined as a deviation from a typical year, but as a…

I am talking about the raw "deaths in 2020 - average deaths in 2015-2019" number. It is much higher than just the COVID deaths. > Note that excess is not defined as a deviation from a typical year, but as a deviation from a typical year when no diseases are circulating. Data is deseasonalized, which does not mean what you wrote.

> Data is deseasonalized, which does not mean what you wrote.

You are correct that I oversimplified a complex situation. https://euromomo.eu/how-it-works/methods/ describes their method, especially section "Hypothesis".

Their model includes a sinusoidal seasonal component, as you noted. However, what I said is also true. From the Hypothesis section, third bullet:

"Parts of Spring and Autumn are less likely to be influenced by additional processes leading to excess deaths and the main pattern of mortality can therefore be modelling using only those periods, resulting in a baseline being the number of deaths expected when no particular process increases mortality."

As is clear from the bullet that precedes the text that I quoted, "processes leading to excess deaths" means winter infections and summer heat waves. So my description, while incomplete, is hopefully not too misleading. For completeness, I should mention that they also adjust for population growth. (You can't just do 2020-avg(2015-2019) because the total population is different.)

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#894
post #480
post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude go to a hospital in a populated area during this surge. My wife sat in the waiting room for 3 hours with SEVERE abdominal pain, DURING A PREGNANCY and was unable to be seen. We went home. If she’d had an ectopic pregnancy, she would probably not be here anymore.

I had an extremely traumatic accident a week ago and came into a major city hospital as a level one trauma patient. I came in with absolutely no wait..ambulance directly to a trauma bay, no waiting, no clothing, no nothing. After about six hours they figure out I was not going to die and was relatively okay. Okay here means two broken legs not “walking around”. Half of the patients at this hospital had covid and I ha…

Meanwhile my friend who is a nurse in the UCLA hospital complex says they’re so understaffed because they let so many people go/nurses retired or quit that all nurses are allowed to come to work if they’ve tested positive but their symptoms are improving

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#895

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why are they so adamant to vaccinate those with prior infection Because the data shows they don't matter. This is the same thing as deaths due to covid vs. deaths while positive to covid. Sure some people might have been miscounted as covid deaths but actually died due to cancer/car accident/whatever. Despite this the excess deaths over the past two years is much higher than the number of covid deaths; thus showing…

>died due to cancer/car accident The WHO definition of a covid death means that they can only be counted as covid deaths if there's a clinical link between cause of death and covid. Ergo, cancer and car accident victims with covid wouldn't be counted. I suppose it depends on how your country defines it and if it follows WHO guidelines

Earlier in the pandemic many public health agencies over counted COVID-19 deaths by including everyone who had tested positive regardless of the actual cause of death. Most agencies have now corrected those numbers to better align with WHO and CDC guidelines so current metrics are generally more accurate. For example Santa Clara County had to adjust the death count down by 22%.

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/santa-clara-countys-co...

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#896

I wonder the people who are questioning vaccine mandates (which evidently brings down the hospital admission rates, thereby saving the health system) also question no public nudity mandates?

They probably scream at everyone around them when they need to get a driver's license or can't smoke in a restaurant. They shriek, "My body, my choice", when they get behind the wheel drunk. And so on and so forth. :D

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#897
post #30

Something from the NYT mailing list yesterday: > The Covid vaccines are remarkably effective at preventing serious illness. If you’re vaccinated, your chances of getting severely sick are extremely low. Even among people 65 and older, the combination of the vaccines’ effectiveness and the Omicron variant’s relative mildness means that Covid now appears to present less danger than a normal flu. > For the unvaccinated,…

Apologies in advance for getting on my soapbox, but this has been on my mind for a while. The way in which the media has gotten everyone to say "the unvaccinated" is a 'disease' against basic science (not even getting into the divisive nature of this). I would go as far as saying if you read any paper, study, or other that refers to the "unvaccinated" as a single cohort, you are reading vaccine propaganda, not scienc…

Ignoring those who are unvaccinated but had a prior infection seems like it can only make the data look better for the unvaccinated than it actually is, no? Because the "true" death rate among the unvaccinated-and-not-yet-infected will be higher than among the unvaccinated-and-previously-recovered group that already has that immunity you talk about.

So if anything, breaking that out just makes not getting vaccinated for those without prior infection look even stupider.

I'd have no problem with treating proof of immune response as similar to vaccinated, but I also haven't seen most of the outraged argue for that - versus just arguing for "freedom" - so... don't wait for me to make that case for them.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#898
post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude go to a hospital in a populated area during this surge. My wife sat in the waiting room for 3 hours with SEVERE abdominal pain, DURING A PREGNANCY and was unable to be seen. We went home. If she’d had an ectopic pregnancy, she would probably not be here anymore.

I'm sorry about your experience. I do wish your wife would have received better care, but I'm not sure we can jump to the conclusion that the experience you had implies mandates and restrictions upon society are worthwhile. Do you know that it would have been a shorter wait time during a period where the hospital wasn't overwhelmed? If so, how much shorter? Perhaps the medical staff were able to tell the signs of ect…

Restrictions would likely achieve essentially nothing right now. Reducing R from insane to merely very high might slightly flatten the curve, but not likely enough to make much difference. Restrictions on a level like China are a different story, but that’s not about to happen here.

Vaccines are entirely different story. They seem to have little effect on transmission (maybe enough to be useful after three doses but maybe not), but they seem to substantially reduce the number of people who end up hospitalized. So more vaccines would lower the curve, not flatten it.

(Take this with a grain of salt. Great data on vaccine efficacy in the US is a bit hard to come by, and I haven’t run the numbers.)

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#899
post #675

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a behavioral component. Is that because people who have caught it are more likely to take precautions against catching it again? Those who were vaccinated but previously uninfected may have had a “it can’t happen to me and if it does, I’m vaccinated” attitude. I’d expect unvaccinated people to be in the bucket with covid deniers and anti-maskers, which would have the highest base rate of COVID.

I doubt it. I caught it in Aug/September during the delta wave and am way less careful now than I was before. Not saying this is true or advocating a position here, but I feel like the pandemic is over for me, I don't have to worry about any current variants, etc. The people I talk to who have also developed natural immunity have the same sort of feeling.

Meanwhile… my sister and her daughter had a Covid sandwich: caught it in summer 2020, got vaccinated as soon as feasible, then caught it again a few days ago.

Anecdotally, my sister is one of those people who “catches everything” so I can’t say I’m surprised, but clearly there is no such thing as absolute sterilizing immunity (natural or vaccine-induced) for this particular coronavirus.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#900

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Herd immunity is for the herd. The US is where it is because we have individuals willing to fight for individual rights. If casualty of individuals is the cost to keep individuality in this country then I say let it be. The vaccinated are protected and therefore you are safe (assuming you are vaccinated). So why do you need to proselytize your doctrine on those around you? You're allowed your own opinions, chant your…

The vaccine doesn't fully protect the receiver. In other words, they are still put in danger by the actions of unvaccinated people. My point is that you have to be reasonable and draw a line somewhere between respecting people's liberties, and holding them responsible / preventing them from harming other people. For instance, if someone wakes up with a sore throat and dry cough but does not postpone a visit to their…

> The vaccine doesn't fully protect the receiver.

Not going to disagree here as that's the information I've heard as well. As someone who sees the situation from the outside however, let me tell you that you are the frog in the boiling pot. The goalpost of the claimed efficacy of the vaccine has moved almost to a point where they are barely acceptable. Again, you are the frog in the pot so it's seems okay because it was only yesterday that you were told the vaccine

> holding them responsible / preventing them from harming other people.

But you also have to draw a line between putting people who aren't sick at threat of blood related health issues including myocarditis for young men (who are not at high risk of death), and period irregularities for young women (who again are not at a high risk of death).

> if someone wakes up with a sore throat and dry cough but does not postpone a visit to their grandparents in an old-folks home, shouldn't that person be held accountable for the danger they are putting other people in?

Absolutely! The old-folks better do their due diligence to tell people they think could make them sick to stay away from them. They'd better hold other people around them accountable or else they could die!

They can also take the vaccine if they believe Dr. Fauci.

Or if they believe Joe Rogan they can acquire Ivermectin and take it along with the other drugs quick and early.

Or if they don't believe Joe Rogan but believe the doctors he talks to, they can take what the specific doctors he interviews recommends. For example, sunlight, vitamin d, and exercise, as an example.

Or if they believe Donald Trump they can take monoclonal antibodies.

Or if they believe Gwyneth Paltrow they can buy a mystical egg from goop.com.

Or if they believe Kenneth Copeland ministries they can bow down to let Jesus to exercise judgement on Covid 19.

But that's all going back to individual responsibility. You can't get the state to impose that unto the individual, because no one can guarantee who is at power in the state. To you Joe Biden might be the second coming of Christ, the protector from covid, the abolisher of student loans. To someone else he could be an lying, cheating(on his first wife), geriatric, people pleasing, pedophilic (or at least very creepy towards young girls) career politician. What if he chooses to keep in power the people who lined his pockets and I happen to disagree that their mandated drug which they profit from is the best solution to the problem? What if I don't believe Dr Fauci represents the way, the science, and the light?

Since I can guess your political leanings, and I can guess your biases, and we're coming up with theoretical possibilities, what if Joe Rogan becomes president, then mandates a treatment of "horse dewormer" based on evidence he hears from a doctor who has friends who hold patents on said horse dewormer?

Will you now be hold yourself responsible and prevent yourself from harming others by shoving a vial of horse dewormer into your good self? Then would you impose your friends and everyone they know shove a horse dewormer vial up into their good selves?

To be honest I don't know what you would do, whether you're a "submit to all authority" type, or if you're a "other side is a bad guy" type, or a "we have to fight this together type". But I know what I would say, because I'd say the exact thing I'm saying now: the state should not have that kind of power, and the individual needs to take responsibility.

What I'm getting at is that this isn't a question of health. This is an issue of state power. The health implications have no regards because the mandating of anything at that level is, by the standards upon which this country was founded upon, unconstitutional.

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