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Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

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Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#191

Post by xadhominemx »

somedude895 wrote: post #88
BitwiseFool wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not so sure about this. Call me a cynic, or even a Libertarian (gasp!) but it is generally not in the nature of government to wind down an apparatus that they paid so much for once "the threat" has passed. Now that governments have the infrastructure for requiring and/or showing proof of vaccination, it really isn't a stretch to think they will want to keep that system and have it be readily available for the nex…

Also, a lot of government employees' jobs now depend on keeping these systems in place in one form or another...

Not really

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#192

Post by andrewclunn »

xadhominemx wrote: post #183
andrewclunn wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as a Republican who has not gotten vaccinated, yes.

Before COVID vaccines, Republicans on average trusted pharma way more than Democrats. In general, distrust in pharma is the effect, not the cause, of anti-vax sentiment. I don’t know what’s going on in your specific case. I suspect you are comparing the health risk of vax to not vax, instead of the risk of vax to COVID, which is the comparison you should be making since everyone is going to get omicron eventually, bu…

I already got Covid. If you spent a little less time assuming other people's positions (and their motivations), you might find the space to hear them instead.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#193

Post by scohesc »

pedrosorio wrote: post #165
hatware wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But there are still unmasked people and unvaccinated people I'm not sure how you're convinced it's only the unmasked or unvaccinated people that are responsible for the spread of the virus at this point. In many countries they are not allowed to go anywhere. How is the virus crossing oceans so quickly if the unvaccinated are unable to cross borders?

> if the unvaccinated are unable to cross borders? Unless regulations across the world have changed drastically in the last couple of weeks, this is just false.

If you're Canadian, you're not allowed to leave the country if you're not vaccinated.

https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/travel-restrictions/domest... - the part specifically about "You need to be vaccinated to travel in and out of Canada"

They've made it a requirement to be vaccinated to use any form of federally regulated transportation - plane, train, boat - personal vehicles are the last option, but good luck trying to drive on the pacific ocean since you're not allowed to enter the US unvaccinated either AFAIK.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#194

Post by xadhominemx »

walterbell wrote: post #111
gibspaulding wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It has killed more than 865,000 Americans It looks like that's more Americans than have been killed in combat in all of the wars of the 20th century combined [1] Granted it's less than the UK lost in WW1 alone, so it's perhaps more a testament to how few the US managed to loose in the world wars (compared to Europe), but it's still wild to realize. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1009819/total-us-militar...

These numbers can be further separated by "with Covid" and "from Covid" causality, as well as co-morbidities and expected lifetime. E.g. if someone was soon to die from illness A, but died 3 months earlier from complications induced by Covid, and the hospital received a financial payment for classifying this as Covid-related treatment, that should be broken out into a separate reporting category. Such deaths would no…

Excess mortality is higher than reported COVID deaths. Australia contained the virus in 2020 and saw negative excess mortality. Official COVID deaths understate the true toll.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#195

Post by micromacrofoot »

cies wrote: post #81
micromacrofoot wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah and I don't call those victories either. We lost and need to do better when it happens again.

I dont have a problem with a natural cause "shaking out some dead branches". That's how things go. Someone else notes tobacco. And that's it, if we are so serious about extending human life, why not focus on lifestyle diseases? And even with that focus I think people should be able to choose their own vices (as long as it does not harm others).

We (the US, but also others) knew this virus was coming, and completely bungled the response on multiple occasions. Lots of people died that didn't have to die.

We spend a lot of time and money avoiding lifestyle diseases. A virus isn't a lifestyle disease.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#196

Post by native_samples »

MagnumOpus wrote: post #106
Izkata wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and I am done caring about this class of people. And their response will be "Finally! This is all we've wanted this entire time!" I don't think most here understand just how much "this class of people" value freedom over safety.

Quoted post unavailable.

A risky argument. That sword cuts in two directions. The COVID-panicked hysterical set have imposed insanely high costs on society, now surfacing as rapidly rising inflation, a huge gap in GDP, and exploded government debts.

So I'd be fine with the following deal:

1. I work out some arrangement with my health insurance firm w.r.t. COVID hospitalization costs, possibly just paying the costs myself or possibly paying a higher premium for not taking the vaccine. It's been two years now and I never caught it, all the people I know who did never required a hospital visit and Omicron is very mild so this seems like a safe bet.

2. In return governments force higher taxes on everyone under the age of 65 who took vaccines they didn't clinically need (and almost nobody under that age does). Those taxes will pay for the costs of the vaccines themselves of course but also all the indirect costs and debts caused by their insistence on shutting society down.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#197

Post by micromacrofoot »

encryptluks2 wrote: post #65
micromacrofoot wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah and I don't call those victories either. We lost and need to do better when it happens again.

Maybe we should outlaw tobacco, limit people's sugar intake via daily glucose testing, and ban alcohol while we're at it?

Tobacco and sugar aren't contagious. If you want to continue down this path of false equivalence, many places have essentially outlawed second-hand smoke.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#198

Post by xadhominemx »

AndrewUnmuted wrote: post #74
sudosysgen wrote: post #10

Some people are saying that this is notable because Pfizer has a financial incentive to keep vaccine mandates. That is not true. Pfizer is going to be making a lot more money from their COVID treatments than from the vaccine.

I cannot recall another example in my lifetime of a global populous all agreeing to purchase a pharmaceutical company's medical product - not just once, but 2-3x per person - in under two years' time. The implications of this phenomenon on Pfizer's business model are enormous. Pfizer & others would be foolish to not pay close attention to this and figure out a way to exploit it for further gains.

> I cannot recall another example in my lifetime of a global populous all agreeing to purchase a pharmaceutical company's medical product - not just once, but 2-3x per person - in under two years' time.

Well this is the first major global pandemic in a century, so that would stand to reason, no? Most of the world received the polio vaccine within a few years of its discovery btw

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#199

Post by xadhominemx »

andrewclunn wrote: post #192
xadhominemx wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before COVID vaccines, Republicans on average trusted pharma way more than Democrats. In general, distrust in pharma is the effect, not the cause, of anti-vax sentiment. I don’t know what’s going on in your specific case. I suspect you are comparing the health risk of vax to not vax, instead of the risk of vax to COVID, which is the comparison you should be making since everyone is going to get omicron eventually, bu…

I already got Covid. If you spent a little less time assuming other people's positions (and their motivations), you might find the space to hear them instead.

So it sounds like you didn’t get vaccinated not because you don’t trust pharma but because you already were infected and don’t need the vaccine?

In any event, the risks of the vaccine are still probably much lower than the risks of a second infection, especially if you were infected more than a year ago

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#200

Post by Freak_NL »

alamortsubite wrote: post #189
Freak_NL wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're doing masks permanently I am going to invest in some bespoke Darth Vader style of head dress or a space suit, because I am completely done with masks. I've made and used home sewn masks using one of the recommended sewing patterns for the past two years, and I've managed to get a good fit that only fogged up my glasses partly, but since last week these masks have been banned here in the Netherlands. Not beca…

Motorcyclists have a great trick to eliminate fogging- after cleaning, rub a little shaving cream onto the lens. It's simple, cheap, and effective. Add a proper-fitting KN95 mask and the difference will be like night and day. There's no need to dress up like Darth Vader (though that might be fun, regardless). Masks can be uncomfortable. My biggest gripe is actually the awkwardness that sometimes accompanies taking th…

Trust me; I've tried all of the remedies and solutions. Only a really good fit seems to help a little bit, but not completely. Better fitting N95 or FFP2 masks may bring some relieve, but they're relatively expensive and barely available in supermarkets as it is. There is also the feeling that it seems statistically pointless to wear these as long as the majority of people use surgical masks; many not even bothering to cover their noses.

I don't know why, but while I can wear a mask for up to half an hour, anything beyond that becomes torture (doubly so when you are travelling with a toddler who needs you as a parent, which means talking through a mask increasing the out-of-breath feeling). This has made travelling longer distances fairly impossible for me, which again adds to the 'so fucking done' feeling that is gaining the upper hand.

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